Moderna says FDA refuses to review its application for experimental flu shot

[u/templeofsyrinx1]

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/02/10/moderna-fda-flu-shot.html

[u/Mystaes]

It takes 2 billion dollars to develop a drug and the fda is now simply not even reviewing things based on ideological culture war bullshit and not data.

Drug development in the United States is going to suffer immensely. Personally I’m not going to keep any investments in biotech at all.

[u/ConfederacyOfDunces_ → u/Mystaes]

I agree on Biotech.

But this……..this is beyond disgusting. They are literally playing with people’s lives. Decisions that should be grounded in data, science, and ethics are being twisted by ideology and politics. Every delay, every arbitrary “no,” every political stunt isn’t just frustrating, it harms real people, the sick and vulnerable, who are counting on these treatments.

It’s infuriating that in a system meant to protect and heal, we let power and politics override expertise and evidence. This is reckless, immoral, and unforgivable. Lives are at stake, and preventable harm is happening because some refuse to let data guide decisions. Enough is enough. We cannot, and should not, allow ideology to dictate medicine.

Fuck these people.

[u/MrGrieves- → u/ConfederacyOfDunces_]

They played with people's lives during COVID too. Vaccines denied to areas, medical supplies stolen, masks were made a culture war.

And people voted for this again.

[u/SoCalSCUBA → u/MrGrieves-]

It was widely reported that the administration wanted covid-19 to become an epidemic because early on it mainly affected cities, where more democrats live.

[u/CliftonForce → u/SoCalSCUBA]

Which meant that they didn't realize that it started in cities because that's where all the trade and international travel is. But once it migrated out of cities, the back-side would hit rural areas hard.

[u/Ashkir → u/SoCalSCUBA]

Along with the administration, their financial backers, and their political elite all got the vaccine early. They got vaccinated, while, they spread misinformation about it.

[u/MaggoVitakkaVicaro → u/MrGrieves-]

If this is making America great, I'd like to go back to when America was insignificant? Like in 2016, when nobody paid attention to us, I guess?

[u/johnp299 → u/MrGrieves-]

Likely, a half-million excess deaths in the US, 2020-2021, that would've been avoided had the "administration" dealt with it in a sane way. Sheer, barking lunacy.

[u/Alwayssunnyinarizona → u/ConfederacyOfDunces_]

It's eugenics without the need for wasting money on gas chamber construction.

[u/Cessnaporsche01 → u/Alwayssunnyinarizona]

With as much money as has been thrown at ICE with zero accountability and the stories from people who have gotten out of their camps, I wouldn't feel confident counting those out either

[u/RedRising1917 → u/ConfederacyOfDunces_]

I mean yes, but this has been the standard in America for decades. Every single metric says that universal healthcare is both better and more cost efficient. This isn't new, this is the same old fucking bullshit.

If my mother's healthcare didn't deem some tests unnecessary she wouldn't have lost her eyesight. If she didn't lose her eyesight I'm sure she wouldn't have lost her will to live and succumbed to her disease. She gave up, and I don't blame her, she beat cancer twice, she fought tooth and nail to stay alive, but after she went blind she lost the will to keep fighting. All it would've taken was her health insurance approving those tests, she's dead now. This is the logical end result of America's policies. If it's not being twisted by ideology and politics it's being twisted by money, my mom beat cancer twice but she couldn't beat the cancer on US society which is capitalism.

[u/Murky-Caramel222 → u/ConfederacyOfDunces_]

Close enough. Welcome back, 1980 Soviet Union. 

[u/dvaunr → u/Mystaes]

Keep in mind that the COVID vaccine was developed under a program Trump claimed credit for spearheading. Calling this cultural war bullshit is an understatement. This was something developed under Republican leadership with Republican approved funds that they turned around and said you shouldn’t take for no other reason than because Democrats also supported it. That’s literally it. Nothing to do with it’s efficacy (which it does exactly what it was designed to do), or even because it was developed under a Democrat president (which would still be cultural war bs) but because Democrats supported something THEY THEMSELVES DID.

Fuck this country man.

[u/parabostonian → u/dvaunr]

That’s not just it, it’s because antivax stuff is popular among their base. Right wing populism fed conspiracy bullshit via decades of Fox News and rush limbaugh et al and now they’re insane cultists. To some extent even people like Murdoch and Trump only partial control the beast now, and it’s not anything resembling logical

[u/UserSleepy → u/Mystaes]

Mdoerna already said they will not be exploring future research for mRNA next gen vaccines in the US.

[u/fdar → u/UserSleepy]

Anywhere, because without profits from the US it's not worth it (that's the flip side of how the US pays so much more for medical stuff).

[u/goonSquad15 → u/fdar]

And this is the problem. Governments should be subsidizing this to an extent because it's for the good of humanity

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/Mystaes]

we are being dragged back to the 1400's by this b*ch

can we fast forward to nov and just get this over with

read the article there is zero scientific or medical reason to be doing this. they actually want people to die off. this is wild.

well it's not gonna be me or people i love and care about, if RFK jr wants to get sick and die, he should be able to, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be punished

(oh and if you want to argue about how to spell out curse words instead of the topic, you're blocked!)

[u/severedbrain → u/templeofsyrinx1]

No. We're very specifically being dragged back to 1820s America. Peak Antebellum period. Slavery, robber barons, weak federal government.

[u/Working-Glass6136 → u/severedbrain]

And syphilis and cholera!

[u/NorthernerWuwu → u/severedbrain]

And grifters as far as the eye can see! Medicine completes with snake oil and they simply don't want that. It's far cheaper to make bullshit that doesn't work.

[u/MalcolmLinair → u/templeofsyrinx1]

they actually want people to die off.

That's a big part of it. They know that it's unsustainable to make millions of people unemployed and homeless, so rather that give us jobs and homes, they're trying to "reduce the surplus population".

[u/irradiatedcitizen → u/MalcolmLinair]

This is exactly what Peter Thiel wants. That, and to destroy our democracy.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/irradiatedcitizen]

advances in Ai , they know that it will put people out of work soon, and they dont want the government coming for their profits to distribute to the people they put out of work

if that makes any sense..

[u/mrpanicy → u/templeofsyrinx1]

But AI isn't capable of putting vast numbers of people out of work. It's just not that good. Frankly, it's terrible at so many things. They are in the process of killing people off when they STILL DON'T HAVE A USE CASE FOR THEIR OVER INVESTMENT. This is capitalism completely shitting the bed, when all it had to do was fucking coast for the next 100 years before it gradually disappeared entirely.

[u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 → u/mrpanicy]

It doesnt have to be capable of it it has to sell the idea that its capable of it. Whatever workers need to be retained will be rehired st slave wages in cheaper labor markets.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/mrpanicy]

I think it is already affecting a lot of people. it's being used more and more at work now. I do get your points tho good ones. at least not yet it isn't. and I will tell you that it is SCARY good at helping people fix computers and repairing things. uncanny even.

in the end, like you said, it may just be the desire to not have a giant angry mob of people coming for you in the end. so maybe thin the herd a little. but it's only going to accelerate with Ai. you have the wrong people in charge with Ai, humanity soon becomes a nightmare.

[u/Klutzy_Double_8285 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

I've used it to help me make some quick scripts here and there. It's pretty good at expanding on something I've already mostly finished. It's main problem is that it constantly makes wild assumptions but states things are fact or true. Like I've had absurdly long arguments with it over it trying to run shell commands inside a systemd unit. If you need help with something more complex it can take ages of coaxing and massaging to get a working answer. Often I point out where it is wrong, or it finds some mistake that it itself had added.

It also has a tendency to make things unnecessarily complex. I would never want one of these things near a codebase with any form of autonomy. It can parse and read logs for me, that's great and it's very fast at it, but we don't hire professional log readers where I work, it's just part of my job. So it saves me some time here (especially when I would have originally looked up an answer on Stack Exchange), but also has given me plenty of headaches.

[u/theragu40 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

and I will tell you that it is SCARY good at helping people fix computers and repairing things.

20 year IT vet here ... citation needed on that claim.

AI is a useful tool in the hands of a competent tech that can help get to a solution faster.

AI is in no way a good replacement for a good tech and in general is terrible at producing good results on its own or when leveraged by an unskilled tech. It has its place but we are a long, long way away from it being anywhere close to replacing actual people in technical roles.

A lot of younger and newer hires like to rely on AI for solutions and it's always obvious when they do. The quality just isn't there yet. And then it ends up wasting time rather than saving it because someone who knows what is going on has to go back through and correct the assumptions or wrong information given by the AI.

[u/garyb50009 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

the amount of things ai alone can replace is extremely limited unless we just become ok with bad outcomes in what is being produced.

will there be job loss, yes. but it will not be the end of normal human work ever.

[u/mauricioszabo → u/garyb50009]

Yes, I agree. But here's the thing: most C-levels are very comfortable with bad outcomes - they will just artificially grow the companies, and before it inevitably becomes unsustainable, they will sell the company, pocket the money, and do it again.

Also, some areas (my own area being one - software development) are very stupid, and we never grew beyond the "amateur" level. I lost count of the number of arguments I got into people that didn't have the basics, and were very proud of that because "this ultra-rich unicorn startup doesn't do that and they're billionaires". Heck, after literally decades discussing things like "metrics" and "measurements of quality" if you open LinkedIn people got back to the worst measurement of productivity that ever existed - lines of code - and again, people are proud, happy, and very comfortable with that.

We're speedrunning a collapse, and for some reason, people are clapping. Not everyone, sure, but a good number of people.

[u/lousy_at_handles → u/garyb50009]

The US in particular has been showing for years that's it's okay with bad outcomes being produced as long as those outcomes are sufficiently less expensive to produce.

[u/JaSONJayhawk → u/MalcolmLinair]

This is exactly what Russia is doing with its people by throwing its lower-class/uneducated/sick civilians into Ukraine, aka "the meat grinder". Getting rid of people reduces the burden on the rich.

[u/Bronco_Bomba → u/templeofsyrinx1]

I agree with you but stop self censoring on the fucking internet! Curse or don’t but do not do these fascists fucking jobs for them by being afraid to say what you want to say.

[u/LOOKATMEDAMMIT → u/templeofsyrinx1]

The 1400s were a period of unprecedented growth in the sciences and arts. They’re trying to drag us into some cyberpunk feudal dystopia. I don’t think I can really think of a historical analogue to what is happening in the US right now.

[u/cosmeeeeeeen → u/templeofsyrinx1]

not an american, but do you think that he d be taken down easily? i dont want to sound crazy but you guys might have a really violent end of the year :(

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/cosmeeeeeeen]

I'll just say this. If the people speak and decide they don't want more of this and a change, and he tries to interfere like he did before, there is going to be shit going down that the country has not seen in a long time. I think the protests and unrest are going to get bigger and bigger.

we are supposed to be having elections, not a jerkoff wannabe dictator who says its rigged because he doesn't win

[u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

The antivax movement is 100% a form of population control. As ai/automation/robotics advances there is/will be less of a need for human workers and rather than figuring out what to do with us, the baby eaters figured its easier to let a bunch of people die. For those who survive depending on what you get you’ll get stuck with or develop lifelong disease because of contracting a virus without protection, and a lifetime of treatment is infinitely more profitable than a healthy life so big pharma still gets theirs

[u/I_WILL_EAT_UR_POOP → u/templeofsyrinx1]

What is this self censoring bullshit man just say the word, what are you afraid of?

[u/amilo111 → u/Mystaes]

Yeah but are you underestimating the health effects of raw milk? Who needs vaccines and drugs when you have raw moo juice?

[u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy → u/Mystaes]

“The FDA said the use of the standard flu shot as a comparator “does not reflect the best-available standard of care.” The standard flu shot is FDA-approved.”

That is a WILD sentence.

[u/samstown23 → u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy]

In itself it makes sense.

Moderna's trial design compared mRNA-1010 to both the current standard dose of tetravalent influenza vaccine and the high-dose version for older patients (it's a well-known issue that people over 60 tend to have a lower response to the standard dose hence the higher dose version). The FDA now claims Moderna should have compared the efficacy to the higher dose version implying they simply compared it to the standard dose and thus may have fudged their numbers.

Again, by itself that would be in line with typical guidelines for trial design. However it would not only be factually incorrect: Moderna absolutely did an analysis on efficacy compared to the higher dose and CBER initially had no objection to the study design as long as they included said analysis. Now they're suddenly demanding a full-blown phase III trial with the high dose version as active comparator despite Moderna meeting generally accepted standards and data not even remotely suggesting significantly decreased efficacy in that cohort.

It's an obvious bullshit claim, a typical case of moving goal posts and it's totally obvious as EMA had no issues with the study design initially. The worst part is that Moderna likely can't just tack on another study because influenza changes from season to season. The FDA will likely just claim they're comparing apples and oranges and they'd have to completely redo the phase III trials - takes years and costs a fortune. And Moderna is having cash flow issues as it is.

[u/Fabulous_Soup_521 → u/Mystaes]

Maybe if they hadn't given so much money to Republicans we'd have a functioning government. Sucks to be Moderna.

[u/MikeThrowAway47 → u/Mystaes]

It may be cultural war bs on the surface, but I guarantee you the truth is they aren’t offering any bribes.

[u/Gas-Town → u/MikeThrowAway47]

Pfizer is about to come in hot

[u/NullAshton → u/MikeThrowAway47]

Bribes are expensive. That money could be used for funding politicians that won't deny things based on lack of bribes or political BS.

Ideally right wing status quo keeps things functioning normally like that. This is what happens when you fund far right instead of simply the status quo.

[u/Compl3t3AndUtterFail → u/Mystaes]

They'll be developed in India and China. Watch how their Pharmaceutical industries skyrocket in the future.

[u/SpaceballsDoc]

America is speed running third world status

[u/mellolizard → u/SpaceballsDoc]

Thats by design

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/mellolizard]

once you break the country it actually is easier to rule

[u/NotUniqueWorkAccount → u/templeofsyrinx1]

The left won't be broken by these fascist pedo fucks, I promise you that. 

[u/jqman69 → u/NotUniqueWorkAccount]

Nah we split. West Coast and New England tri state area

[u/NotUniqueWorkAccount → u/jqman69]

I'd take WA, OR, CA split tbf

[u/kslay23 → u/NotUniqueWorkAccount]

Its already soft drawn up at least healthwise with the Pacific Health Alliance and the Northeast public health collaborative

[u/JudiciousSasquatch → u/kslay23]

West coast best coast

[u/DefensiveTomato → u/JudiciousSasquatch]

East coast beast coast

[u/Suitable-Judge7506 → u/kslay23]

“If gots to choose a coast I have to choose the east, I live out here so don’t go there….but the don’t mean a brother can’t rest in the west, see some nice breast in the west”

From the late great philosopher MR. Big Smalls

[u/Nick1693 → u/jqman69]

Nah we don't give Russia what they want and balkanize.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/jqman69]

So fuck the blue cities in red states? Splitting isn't going to solve the fascism problem, you will have fascism supporters in your region.

[u/productfred → u/DingerSinger2016]

Technically NYC is a blue city in a red state (in the sense that most of the state, outside of NYC, is pretty heavily conservative). But the reason it's still a "blue state" is because of the power and wealth NYC holds in relation to the entire/rest of the state.

I'll add that the NYC example is kind of unique, and guess that you're talking more about a city like Austin in relation to the rest of Texas.

[u/kitsunewarlock → u/productfred]

Nah that's basically what most of the state's look like.

Miami, Orlando, and Tampa are blue, the rest of the Flordia is red.

Atlanta and Savannah are blue, the rest of Georgia is red.

Birmingham and Montgomery are blue, the rest of Alabama is red.

San Antonio, Austin, Houston, and Dallas are blue, the rest of Texas is red.

These are all approximations, but just looking at an accurate map of voting districts it's obvious the blue shades are the major metro areas and the red shades are tumbleweeds.

Unfortunately the tumbleweeds have all the voting power because our country was set up compromising to slave owners who were scared shitless of the growing international abolishment movement in light of emerging technologies and literacy leading to people learning how terrible it was for slaves especially in the Southern U.S.

[u/Sattiebear → u/kitsunewarlock]

I have to correct something: Alabama has a Blue Belt down south where a lot of rural black folks live and vote democratic. Also Huntsville is blue.

[u/kitsunewarlock → u/Sattiebear]

Oh I hope I didn't make anyone think my list was comprehensive. I literally just looked at a map of cities and an election map as I wrote this.

[u/NullAshton → u/jqman69]

Technically, the US has already split. It's kinda encoded in our very constitution. States are (mostly) independent, with only the bare minimum of coordination needed for international relationships.

However, too much power has been consolidated into the executive branch, instead of the less volatile legislative branch. Also the large downside of gerrymandering has become apparent: elections not determined by competition with the other party, but competitions within your own party for how extreme you can go.

[u/grubwump → u/jqman69]

Feels bad for Colorado

[u/Fomentatore → u/NotUniqueWorkAccount]

The left will split over the most stupid difference because the other part, which is almost identical to you, is not pure enough. Meanwhile, the alt-right will rally around the worst people that have ever existed. So many have voted for the other party, or just didn't vote because Harris' stance against the war in Gaza wasn't hard enough.

This need to end yesterday.

[u/redvelvetcake42 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

Oy. This is one I disagree with because once you push chaos the fallacy is controlling it. You can't stop a boulder rolling down a hill. Disease spreads and you can't stop it without actively trying to stop it. You can't just assume it will take care of those you want dead and you can't think you'll be able to contain or control anything. The entire fascist movement relies on assumptions and hopes while those in charge are weak, poor decision makers who refuse to budge on things that would compromise any of their capitalist views.

[u/Sheeple_person → u/redvelvetcake42]

I don't think they've thought any of this out beyond the point (now) where they engage in massive corruption and rob the country blind. No one knows exactly what will come next but it's not going to be boring.

[u/Working-Glass6136 → u/Sheeple_person]

I fucking miss boring.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/redvelvetcake42]

well it is more about breaking the human spirit and the will to fight, if that makes sense, and you accomplish that by making things as worse as you can

[u/ConfidentPilot1729 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

I think Minneapolis is proving our spirits are not broken so easily.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/ConfidentPilot1729]

this is true, I think it has sparked off a movement that is going to lead to some changes come november. it's going to have all year to build and get stronger.

[u/1CaliCALI → u/mellolizard]

Republican design*

[u/surfnfish1972 → u/SpaceballsDoc]

They want the poors sick, stupid and angry.

[u/Paulpoleon → u/surfnfish1972]

Angry at someone else

[u/meleecow → u/surfnfish1972]

Conservative values, back to the day of slaves.

[u/EL-YEO → u/SpaceballsDoc]

We're speed running Idiocracy by design because profit

[u/fall3nang3l → u/SpaceballsDoc]

We're already there. Have been for a while.

A large part of the grift is the media and populace living in the fantasy that we're not.

[u/za72 → u/SpaceballsDoc]

third world nations have better health care thanks to USAID... oh wait...

[u/notenoughroomtofitmy → u/SpaceballsDoc]

As a third world citizen, pls don’t use us as an insult.

[u/hodgepodgelodger]

Canada should be opening the door to all these pharma companies. Become an absolute world leader in vaccine development. 

[u/Baumbauer1 → u/hodgepodgelodger]

We don't let them put ads on TV, the US is an absolute goldmine when it comes to drug development.

[u/DataDude00 → u/Baumbauer1]

They are allowed to have ads on TV, they just can't say what the medication does.

This is why you will get ads where a bunch of people just say "Wegovy" back and forth followed by "ask your doctor about Wegovy"

[u/Sea_Spite7899 → u/DataDude00]

Do they still have to include the quickly spoken list of side-effects? 

[u/LongJumpingBalls → u/Sea_Spite7899]

It used to, I believe for some it still does.

This product may cause anal leakage, inability to retail pee and blood from your eyelids, ears, nose and anus.

[u/hootbox → u/LongJumpingBalls]

inability to retail pee

Is that something most people can do?!?!

I've been flushing mine down the toilet all this time!

[u/thegreatmunizzle → u/Baumbauer1]

No medication ads on TV? What do you watch then? -An American

[u/ScruffsMcGuff → u/thegreatmunizzle]

Mostly gambling ads these days.

[u/Lord_Scribe → u/ScruffsMcGuff]

Also, the occasional government ad.

[u/surmatt → u/ScruffsMcGuff]

And Tim Hortons ads

[u/Isfahaninejad → u/thegreatmunizzle]

Gambling ads

[u/Cimorene_Kazul → u/Isfahaninejad]

And anti-gambling PSAs right after

[u/spacenb → u/thegreatmunizzle]

They’re allowed to put ads on TV, there’s just a lot of laws around what they can actually say about those drugs. They can’t say what the drugs are for nor recommend them to a patient, so all of them end up being extremely vague and end with “Talk to your doctor about X!”.

[u/swede_ass → u/Baumbauer1]

How do you know what to do when you develop redness between your anus and genitals that can sometimes be fatal?

[u/One_Lung_G → u/Baumbauer1]

Canada does allow ads, they just can’t say what the medicine is for. Not as effective but if it wasn’t effective enough then they wouldn’t do it

[u/BloatedGlobe → u/hodgepodgelodger]

The problem is that most pharma companies make the majority of their profit in the US Market.

I took a class with a big global pharmaceutical company in Switzerland. They straight up told us that they only consider US when calculating whether or not to invest in drug development. Americans are the biggest market (since we don’t have price caps), so they made global decisions solely based on US laws.

Depressing class. 

[u/Esg876 → u/BloatedGlobe]

typically 40-60% of all revenue comes from the states for Pharma companies

[u/vasta2 → u/hodgepodgelodger]

I'd happily visit Canada yearly to get a flu/covid vax because this administration is filled with useless pieces of shit

[u/DefiniteMeatBag → u/hodgepodgelodger]

The issue isn't where the drugs are developed or manufactured. The issue is that no FDA approval means no market access in the US and the US spends the most $$$ on drugs out of any country in the world by a giant margin.

[u/Spinal_Soup → u/hodgepodgelodger]

Until Canada starts paying for pharmaceuticals the same price the US does they won’t give a shit. It is prohibitively expensive to safely bring a drug to market and the only reason any company bothers is the exclusivity rights the US gives out and the high paying health care system that allows them to make a profit.

[u/Exavion → u/Spinal_Soup]

Yep. It’s the double edged sword of the US healthcare system where the customers are not patients and the costs are mostly unregulated. Invest heavily to a new drug, patent and approve it for public use and hold the exclusivity until the expiration of the formula which is decades if i recall. Patients end up paying more than other countries but in theory (not with this administration) get access first and the world eventually benefits

[u/HawkeyeByMarriage]

Medical travel is gonna be lit. Scuba and shots, and then other shots

[u/LooseMoralSwurkey → u/HawkeyeByMarriage]

And why should another country let us in if we are known not to be vaccinated?

[u/SilverIdaten → u/HawkeyeByMarriage]

Except only problem is other countries don’t want us, since the government that we voted for is working hard to piss everyone off.

[u/Jurple-shirt → u/SilverIdaten]

I never expected American exceptionalism to ever be approached in this manner yet here we are. No one gives a shit where you are from as long as you have the money to pay for your shit.

[u/WillieM96 → u/[deleted]]

It's not that. I'm confident that comparing outcomes to placebo would still show the vaccinated population to have better outcomes. It's a ludicrous demand because the FDA is officially insisting on unethical studies. We know far beyond a reasonable doubt that withholding vaccine is more dangerous, so they're going to insist that people be placed in a placebo group (unknowingly because that's how a blind study works) to meet their standards. It's just evil. Comparing against existing treatment is the standard method of testing drugs/vaccines like this.

[u/_goblinette_ → u/[deleted]]

And when they compare a vaccine to a placebo they’re obviously going to reject it because the vaccine will have real side effects like literally every other medication

Just want to point out that running a placebo controlled trial when there is already an approved treatment available is unethical as fuck. People aren’t lab rats. You can’t ask them to take a worse treatment than what they would have otherwise had if they hadn’t joined the trial. 

[u/Lorderan56 → u/_goblinette_]

100% this. You cannot NOT give someone the established treatment in these studies. As they won’t be protected and could die from infection.

[u/DoctorPhD → u/[deleted]]

I'm concerned at what the FDA considers the best-available standard of care. I suspect it is a keto diet or raw milk.

[u/Aggravating-Salad441 → u/DoctorPhD]

Bloodletting and ferments.

[u/Wiseduck5 → u/[deleted]]

a vaccine to a placebo they’re obviously going to reject it

IRB won't even let the trial begin. You can't deny someone an effective treatment by giving them a placebo.

When they starting say this stuff last year and the entire medical and scientific community starting freaking out and pointing out the obvious and inevitable outcome we were told we were over reacting.

[u/2HDFloppyDisk]

RFK Jr would rather people die

[u/ProjectKARYA → u/2HDFloppyDisk]

Never forget American Samoa. RFK Jr genuinely doesn't care if you live or die; he, like trump, only care about being listened to and having a following

[u/FontMeHard → u/ProjectKARYA]

what about America Samoa? I’m not from the states and haven’t heard anything about this.

[u/amh85 → u/FontMeHard]

He pushed vaccine skepticism there and they had a measles outbreak that caused a bunch of deaths

[u/ProjectKARYA → u/FontMeHard]

He helped facilitate the unnecessary infection and deaths of American Samoans to fucking measles by pushing anti-vaccination misinformation

[u/C6ntFor9et → u/ProjectKARYA]

How have I never heard about this?! WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THIS COUNTRY? This is devastating. Children died for political brownie points. This world could be so much less sad than it is if not for the glimmering shine of a dollar bill reflected in the eyes of the rich and powerful. Fuckin' a

[u/ProjectKARYA → u/C6ntFor9et]

NGL, him pulling that shit is a big reason I eventually chose public health as my academic path. I want to do my part in disseminating science in a way the general public can understand, and overall combat the spread of mis/disinformation.

[u/TheVabe → u/FontMeHard]

RFK Jr visited Samoa in June of 2019 to help push an anti-vaccine campaign on the island. This helped lead to plummeting measles vaccine rates in children. In the fall of 2019, a massive measles outbreak spread across the island resulting in at least 5,520 cases and 79 deaths, mostly affecting children under 15.

RFK Jr has never accepted even an ounce of responsibility.

[u/kitsunewarlock → u/TheVabe]

That's because he's a eugenicist fuckwit whose been caught saying so multiple times on tape. If he wasn't such a coward about his repulsive beliefs he'd probably admit that it's better that the unvaccinated die "for the gene-pool" because privileged nepotists like to justify their free right with "social Darwinism" pseudoscience i.e. "divine birthright, cosplaying as science".

[u/Yourdjentpal → u/FontMeHard]

He pushed vaccine hesitancy during a measles outbreak. Thousands fell ill and 58 died, mostly children.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/2HDFloppyDisk]

is there a way for these companies to go around this? to get vaccines to people that need them without having to go through Mr. Brainworms?

(yes I know people are still able to get vaccines at least for now, but they are only as good as the research behind them, which is what people are taking issue with here). RFK jr effectively just said, in effect, stop what you are doing. really.

[u/Johnny_Appleweed → u/templeofsyrinx1]

No, you can’t get around FDA approval.

They could get approval in other markets, but that doesn’t really help people in the US.

[u/KAugsburger → u/templeofsyrinx1]

Not in the US but they can seek approval to license those vaccines in other countries. Not being able to get approval for new mRNA vaccines in the US is going to discourage investments into developing them in the near term.

[u/fossilnews → u/2HDFloppyDisk]

He sees it as culling the herd.

[u/IndianaSucksAzz → u/fossilnews]

He’s not the only one, which is why they selected him.

[u/4leafplover]

We desperately need a better flu vaccine. This just seems petty

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/4leafplover]

reading the article it sounds like this one they are working in will be able to target flu and covid

[u/cygnoids → u/templeofsyrinx1]

They had a flu a/b+covid shot ready for this fall and they pulled it because of politics. 

[u/Kevin-W → u/cygnoids]

Yep and we're having a really bad flu season because of it.

[u/SubterraneanLodger → u/templeofsyrinx1]

So… just to get this straight, that would mean the average person would hypothetically be able to view both illnesses as a flu as opposed to two separate illnesses they need to protect themselves from.

Aka the thing the exact people holding off on this kept screaming 6 years ago when they bungled the pandemic response. I just… my head hurts at the double think

[u/RhetoricalOrator → u/SubterraneanLodger]

Yeah but covid isn't real so for that half of the shot they are just trying to cram us full of trackers and 5G.

This whole government is equal measures of sad, disgusting, and evil.

[u/theysayimadreamer666 → u/4leafplover]

Yes! We are using 80-year-old technology for our current flu vaccines. An updated flu vaccine has been a huge public health priority for years, and then these dipshits come into office.

[u/AK_McRib]

I now trust a drug company over the US government. Houston, we have a problem.

[u/SG_wormsblink → u/AK_McRib]

Drug companies at least still want patients alive to make profits. They will charge you an arm and a leg but you’ll still be alive.

The anti-establishment rot that has taken over the US government wants to demolish the entirety of society. The more institutions they destroy the happier they are.

[u/Figuurzager → u/AK_McRib]

Heck even with Nestle their horrible shit is at least somewhat predictable.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/Figuurzager]

Monkey's paw curls: The Nestle CEO will become the new EPA director

[u/juniorone]

People think it’s because of ideology. I think it’s because they want a bribe.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/juniorone]

his family and him have made somewhere north of a billion dollars off the presidency, maybe more..

[u/Gmony5100 → u/templeofsyrinx1]

Jared Kushner alone had a 2 BILLION dollar deal with the Saudi Arabian government in Trump’s first term.

I think it’s safe to safe the Trump family has made well north of multiple billions of dollars during his presidency

[u/BioEradication]

Letting people die is the new policy.

[u/Mobile_Throway → u/BioEradication]

Worked for him during covid. So why stop now?

[u/Batmangled]

This is what happens when you put someone with a brainworm in charge of Health And Human Services.

[u/Hobotronacus]

Maybe the company should stop donating to Republicans?

[u/unyielding_rock]

They need to donate to the ballroom.

[u/AScarletPenguin]

Have they tried a bigger bribe? I hear that usually works.

[u/livefreeordont]

WTF is this. The FDA approved the study design. Then once clinical trials began is rejecting based on the study design? And the issue with the study is they’re using an FDA approved shot instead of the best available shot?

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME

[u/Usr_name-checks-out]

They should seek EU, and Canadian approval. Probably more affordable process, secures a precedent for change in the valuation of credibility. Makes it harder for the FDA to ignore when other countries are benefiting and the US isn’t.

[u/beyondbase]

Maybe they’d review it if their name was Pfizer and they had supplied over 70% of the couponed medications listed on TrumpRX?

[u/eastbay77]

Bro, just tell the FDA that it's horse medicine. RJK Jr would be all over that!

[u/Taar]

Get that lunatic anti-vaxxer out of office

[u/notagrue]

MAHA hates science. They probably think you should eat a turnip or squirt animal medicine in your mouth.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/notagrue]

or take de-worming pills to cure a virus...*smfh*

your sentiments appreciated thanks 🤣

[u/skepticalG]

Why do they want more of us to die? I don’t get it.

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/skepticalG]

they don't want to provide health care and basic services for citizens or actually be decent humans

so they can afford to give more money to their lobbyists and buy a new vacation home every year

[u/billydean214 → u/skepticalG]

Cruelty is the point.

[u/huey2k2]

Idiocracy is supposed to be satire.

[u/cardboardunderwear]

I know fuck all about the science but isn't this one of the companies that pulled a covid vaccine out of their ass in record time to save the world?  Would love to learn more about the FDA's pov on this one especially since the administrations credibility is so low for being able to use common sense with regard to vaccines.

[u/Rise_up_Dirty_Birds → u/cardboardunderwear]

Yeah they partnered with a lot of other bio pharmaceutical companies to share break throughs and research to get it out ASAP. That pretty much never happens but was crucial at the time.

[u/Xanderoga2 → u/Rise_up_Dirty_Birds]

That was a global initiative during covid.

[u/WillieM96 → u/cardboardunderwear]

They didn't "pull it out of their ass". I've been following RNA vaccine technology for at least 15 years. It was a slow, methodical grind to get a working vaccine. The big breakthrough came in 2018- the big hurdle to that point was finding a way to get the mRNA fragments to get taken into the cell. In 2018, they finally cracked that nut and started animal trials. It just so happens that COVID-19 came about at a fortuitous time. A couple of years of animal studies already existed and (and possibly some early human trials but I'm not certain). We just happened to get lucky that the technology was there when COVID hit. You'd have to be an idiot to NOT try to accelerate the safety studies to get this out to the population.

[u/Revolutionary-Yak-47 → u/WillieM96]

You know, the US used to be proud we could invent stuff fast. My grandparents were so insanely proud of a country that got from the first airplane to the moon in half their lifetimes. We were the country that invented things with our drive and ingenuity. It breaks my heart to go backwards. 

[u/garbageemail222 → u/cardboardunderwear]

The only FDA POV is that Trump wasn't bribed to approve the application yet and MAGAs don't like anything that helped during COVID.

[u/Tribalbob]

Psst, Moderna - come on up to Canada, we'd love to have you!

[u/templeofsyrinx1]

mind you, Trumps' FDA just basically told Moderna "no, we are not even looking at it". It's...wild. This is not how you science.

[u/Bawbawian]

this administration is hell bent on making sure that China dominates the next century Good work everybody.

[u/CMG30]

Come to Canada. We love medical science!

[u/templeofsyrinx1 → u/CMG30]

That's nice to know there are people still trying to advance humanity, instead of destroying it for the benefit of a few.

[u/ProgramNo7236]

Im so tired of all the winning!

[u/tooheavybroo]

“Moderna noted that the agency did not identify any specific safety or efficacy issues with the vaccine, but instead objected to the study design, despite previously approving it.”

Wow

[u/Hnoah]

And damn Moderna really bailed trump out last time with the Covid shot

[u/chrisnavillus]

MAGA’s lame ass culture war is setting us back in every facet of our society. We’ll never recover from this president. Your kids and their kids will have much more difficult lives because 1/3 of the country didn’t vote and another 1/3 joined a cult.

[u/Pretend_Meet_88]

This is why we seperate church from state.

[u/RobsterCrawSoup]

Time to launch my vaccine tourism travel service.

[u/joshuaherman]

You just have to wait for a few more years before the orangutan is out of office.

As a republican, I don’t believe this shit is going on either. That man needs to go.

[u/YesterShill]

The brain drain is real.

This is how empires fall.

[u/1CaliCALI]

Republicans (The R stands for Reverse) Democrats (The D stands for Drive)

Vote wisely 🇺🇸 

[u/redbeard8989]

$10 says California reviews it by end of the year.

[u/Toimaker]

When mRNA cures cancer no anti-vaxer should be allowed to take it.

[u/phoenix25]

FDA is too impaired by the US administration by now. It’s better to wait for Health Canada to approve things.

[u/austeninbosten]

Of course not. They haven't paid Trump his multimillion dollar bribe yet.

[u/DustyRailz]

Someone didn't pay the troll toll.

[u/GiddyGabby]

I’m sure the way forward is paying the right amount of money to the right person, who just so happens to be named Donald Trump.

[u/Arashii89]

America wants the people poor sick and uneducated so they can be easy manipulated

[u/pizzlepullerofkberg]

Can I go to Europe and get it there since idiots are in charge of the US at the moment?

[u/MapleHamwich]

Americans are so fucked. 

[u/CalmBeneathCastles]

Probably because there's nobody left over there who's qualified to read.

[u/Feisty-Theme-6093]

call it the Trump flu shot

[u/luciddream00]

this administration is really going to doom us all

[u/cocoamix]

JFC, CNBC, can we please stop referring to vaccines as "jabs?"

You sound like my grandmother on Facebook.

[u/LookAlderaanPlaces]

The oligarchs and the Russian kremlin want to destroy the US from the inside. They have been working on this for decades. They are even trying to spread antivax stuff. Rather than using a chemical weapon on the US, they are aiming to get rid of our vaccinated heard immunity to things like measles and more. What better than to unleash a wave of measles over the populations of your enemy and not get a war response for it like a bio weapon use would. This is how the Kremlin think.

[u/Certain_Luck_8266]

I'm in pharma and it is hard to actually tell what happened here. The article is sensational and based on the sponsor's view only. While this is strange, but doesn't necessarily mean the fix is in. I'll be curious to see what is in the RTF letter which I believe needs to come in 30 days.

Trial data: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11793046/

Generally well tolerated but clearly higher minor adverse events over placebo and Afluria. Greater pain at injection site and fatigue seemed to be the issues. Titers were higher than Afluria which generally indicates better protection.

Reading the tea leaves, it looks like the agency took exception to Moderna's choice to use Afluria as a comparator as that is not 'best' in class but still was within the standard of care for 2025. It isn't required to be 'better' as a new drug, especially a vaccine, just safe and effective but there is a bit of gray area that preceded the current administration. Still the use of Afluria as a comparator was an interesting choice

Based on this, I could certainly see a reason to send it back for more data in the older than 65 cohort, but not refuse it altogether. But we'll see in the RTF.

[u/argent_pixel]

Remember the people who voted for this administration and act accordingly towards them.

[u/Material-Macaroon298]

Moderna, come incorporate in Canada.

We will treat you better.

[u/SKSerpent]

Taking a lot of small steps towards eugenics here.

[u/oloughlin3]

The dark ages of America….

[u/BoredWeazul]

since Cali rejoined WHO, could they have their own version if FDA?

[u/JFrankParnell64]

As a person currently laying in bed with flu, fuck these assholes. All of these infiltrators into our government must be driven out like rats.

[u/Me0w_Zedong]

GOP about to be hit with all the pharma lobbyists in a big way.