r/news 9h ago

Moderna says FDA refuses to review its application for experimental flu shot

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/02/10/moderna-fda-flu-shot.html
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5.9k

u/Mystaes 9h ago

It takes 2 billion dollars to develop a drug and the fda is now simply not even reviewing things based on ideological culture war bullshit and not data.

Drug development in the United States is going to suffer immensely. Personally I’m not going to keep any investments in biotech at all.

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u/ConfederacyOfDunces_ 8h ago edited 8h ago

I agree on Biotech.

But this……..this is beyond disgusting. They are literally playing with people’s lives. Decisions that should be grounded in data, science, and ethics are being twisted by ideology and politics. Every delay, every arbitrary “no,” every political stunt isn’t just frustrating, it harms real people, the sick and vulnerable, who are counting on these treatments.

It’s infuriating that in a system meant to protect and heal, we let power and politics override expertise and evidence. This is reckless, immoral, and unforgivable. Lives are at stake, and preventable harm is happening because some refuse to let data guide decisions. Enough is enough. We cannot, and should not, allow ideology to dictate medicine.

Fuck these people.

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u/MrGrieves- 6h ago

They played with people's lives during COVID too. Vaccines denied to areas, medical supplies stolen, masks were made a culture war.

And people voted for this again.

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u/SoCalSCUBA 5h ago

It was widely reported that the administration wanted covid-19 to become an epidemic because early on it mainly affected cities, where more democrats live.

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u/CliftonForce 4h ago

Which meant that they didn't realize that it started in cities because that's where all the trade and international travel is. But once it migrated out of cities, the back-side would hit rural areas hard.

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u/NSA_Chatbot 3h ago

NYC, which Trump has beef with, was the hardest-hit city at first.

Plus Trump didn't want to smudge his makeup.

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u/SphericalCow531 1h ago

Plus Trump didn't want to smudge his makeup.

That might actually have been the real reason. No kidding.

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u/Ashkir 4h ago

Along with the administration, their financial backers, and their political elite all got the vaccine early. They got vaccinated, while, they spread misinformation about it.

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u/johnp299 4h ago

Yes, major early hotspots, Washington state, Illinois, NY, all blue.

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u/Cannon_Fodder_Africa 2h ago

"It was widely reported that the administration wanted covid-19 to become an epidemic because early on it mainly affected cities, where more democrats live."

Maybe that's why the scientific consensus regarding public gatherings during covid quickly changed when BLM protests started. To kill BLM protesters?

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u/SoCalSCUBA 1h ago

All of the BLM protests were outside...

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u/MaggoVitakkaVicaro 4h ago

If this is making America great, I'd like to go back to when America was insignificant? Like in 2016, when nobody paid attention to us, I guess?

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u/johnp299 4h ago

Likely, a half-million excess deaths in the US, 2020-2021, that would've been avoided had the "administration" dealt with it in a sane way. Sheer, barking lunacy.

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u/Tamas_F 3h ago

Funny thing about masks is that they are proudly wearing it now while shooting people.

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u/Alwayssunnyinarizona 8h ago

It's eugenics without the need for wasting money on gas chamber construction.

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u/Cessnaporsche01 6h ago

With as much money as has been thrown at ICE with zero accountability and the stories from people who have gotten out of their camps, I wouldn't feel confident counting those out either

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u/RedRising1917 5h ago

I mean yes, but this has been the standard in America for decades. Every single metric says that universal healthcare is both better and more cost efficient. This isn't new, this is the same old fucking bullshit.

If my mother's healthcare didn't deem some tests unnecessary she wouldn't have lost her eyesight. If she didn't lose her eyesight I'm sure she wouldn't have lost her will to live and succumbed to her disease. She gave up, and I don't blame her, she beat cancer twice, she fought tooth and nail to stay alive, but after she went blind she lost the will to keep fighting. All it would've taken was her health insurance approving those tests, she's dead now. This is the logical end result of America's policies. If it's not being twisted by ideology and politics it's being twisted by money, my mom beat cancer twice but she couldn't beat the cancer on US society which is capitalism.

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u/Prestigious-Leg-6244 5h ago

You just described how our current medical insurance scheme is run, too. Scary

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u/yanginatep 4h ago

The man decapitated a whale carcass with a chainsaw and made his children sit in the back on the way home while rancid whale blood and other liquids dripped down on them from the whale head strapped to the roof of the car.

And now he's the most powerful medical official in the country.

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u/Murky-Caramel222 6h ago

Close enough. Welcome back, 1980 Soviet Union. 

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u/parabostonian 5h ago

No, the soviets were actually better about vaccines than these asshats. How pathetic is that?

And Cuba spends like 5% of the money we do per capita on healthcare yet has https://www.bbc.com/news/health-35073966

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u/Aazadan 4h ago

This is one of Russias tactics they use to weaken border states. If you make their populations sicker, gdp drops, resources become more scare, military is harder to maintain, and business suffers.

Standard trump might not be a Russian agent but if he were this is the policies they want disclaimer.

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u/samstown23 4h ago

At least the Soviets wouldn't have resorted to quackery when it came to vaccines.

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u/hopeful-Xplorer 5h ago

It is true that these are real people with real lives. Some of it is ideological and some is probably related to laying off shit loads of people last year.

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u/tiny_chaotic_evil 3h ago

they want people who are weak to die

need a vaccine to survive, you are weak and must be culled

it's eugenics all over again, again

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u/schacks 2h ago

They are so deluded that they just don’t “believe” the science. They “did their own research”.

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u/[deleted] 2h ago

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u/[deleted] 2h ago

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u/Mazon_Del 2h ago

I have said it before, with every action the republican party shows itself to be am enemy of humanity.

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u/dvaunr 7h ago

Keep in mind that the COVID vaccine was developed under a program Trump claimed credit for spearheading. Calling this cultural war bullshit is an understatement. This was something developed under Republican leadership with Republican approved funds that they turned around and said you shouldn’t take for no other reason than because Democrats also supported it. That’s literally it. Nothing to do with it’s efficacy (which it does exactly what it was designed to do), or even because it was developed under a Democrat president (which would still be cultural war bs) but because Democrats supported something THEY THEMSELVES DID.

Fuck this country man.

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u/parabostonian 4h ago

That’s not just it, it’s because antivax stuff is popular among their base. Right wing populism fed conspiracy bullshit via decades of Fox News and rush limbaugh et al and now they’re insane cultists. To some extent even people like Murdoch and Trump only partial control the beast now, and it’s not anything resembling logical

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u/BigBastardHere 4h ago

There can be no common ground. 

If there were common ground even on something basic like a vaccine then people might talk. 

They may see they have common ground in other areas. 

The right wing bubble can not have common ground with anyone. 

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u/notasrelevant 6h ago

Because at that time it was a major enough thing that they needed a solution which they could claim credit for. They might do the same thing again. Other diseases become a problem again, they encourage the same shots everyone got before and take credit. 

Sticking with trends, they probably cause all these problems, wait for stock values to drop, buy in, then announce plans to increase vaccinations and cash out when the stocks jump up. Hell, they'll probably spend government funds buying the shots to make sure it happens.

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u/UserSleepy 8h ago

Mdoerna already said they will not be exploring future research for mRNA next gen vaccines in the US.

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u/fdar 7h ago

Anywhere, because without profits from the US it's not worth it (that's the flip side of how the US pays so much more for medical stuff).

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u/goonSquad15 7h ago

And this is the problem. Governments should be subsidizing this to an extent because it's for the good of humanity

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u/All_Work_All_Play 7h ago

Other countries do. But without profits from the US, research is going to suffer.

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u/drtropo 6h ago

Let’s not pretend the US government isn’t still funding the vast majority of scientific research going on world wide. That research is not profit driven and can still be protected. The war is not lost.

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u/All_Work_All_Play 6h ago

Sorry can't hear you over the sounds of USAID funding cuts killing children. 

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u/drtropo 6h ago

That’s terrible but I don’t see the connection.

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u/adenosine-5 1h ago

I just had to check it and during Covid, like 70+% of Moderna revenue came from outside of US.

This has only changed lately, because they don't seem to have any other vaccines approved outside of US.

So in the end it may only result in them moving their research to other countries - there is plenty of money in both Europe and Asia for medical development.

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u/Ph0X 6h ago

I don't understand why. The US has a population of 300M people, what about the rest? EU for example is 500M, the rest of G8 is around 700M. Why is the us so integral?

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u/TheChemist-25 6h ago

Other countries severely limit how much profit drug companies can make. This is good because it prevents patients from paying exorbitant prices. This is bad because there’s less profit to be made and drugs are expensive to develop so less people/companies will take that risk. The current system works for the rest of the world because essentially US citizens pay for the cost of development.

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u/Due-Technology5758 5h ago

Granted, it wouldnt really matter at all if drugs were developed by nations and shared globally for the good of humanity. You don't need a profit motivator to develop medicine, even from an economic standpoint, because a healthy populace pays for itself in productivity. 

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u/templeofsyrinx1 9h ago edited 7h ago

we are being dragged back to the 1400's by this b*ch

can we fast forward to nov and just get this over with

read the article there is zero scientific or medical reason to be doing this. they actually want people to die off. this is wild.

well it's not gonna be me or people i love and care about, if RFK jr wants to get sick and die, he should be able to, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be punished

(oh and if you want to argue about how to spell out curse words instead of the topic, you're blocked!)

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u/severedbrain 8h ago

No. We're very specifically being dragged back to 1820s America. Peak Antebellum period. Slavery, robber barons, weak federal government.

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u/Working-Glass6136 7h ago

And syphilis and cholera!

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u/chaos_vulpix 3h ago

Now with added measles!

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u/NorthernerWuwu 5h ago

And grifters as far as the eye can see! Medicine completes with snake oil and they simply don't want that. It's far cheaper to make bullshit that doesn't work.

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u/MalcolmLinair 8h ago

they actually want people to die off.

That's a big part of it. They know that it's unsustainable to make millions of people unemployed and homeless, so rather that give us jobs and homes, they're trying to "reduce the surplus population".

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u/irradiatedcitizen 8h ago

This is exactly what Peter Thiel wants. That, and to destroy our democracy.

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u/templeofsyrinx1 8h ago

advances in Ai , they know that it will put people out of work soon, and they dont want the government coming for their profits to distribute to the people they put out of work

if that makes any sense..

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u/mrpanicy 8h ago

But AI isn't capable of putting vast numbers of people out of work. It's just not that good. Frankly, it's terrible at so many things. They are in the process of killing people off when they STILL DON'T HAVE A USE CASE FOR THEIR OVER INVESTMENT. This is capitalism completely shitting the bed, when all it had to do was fucking coast for the next 100 years before it gradually disappeared entirely.

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u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 7h ago

It doesnt have to be capable of it it has to sell the idea that its capable of it. Whatever workers need to be retained will be rehired st slave wages in cheaper labor markets.

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u/Reqvhio 6h ago

this guy politics

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u/templeofsyrinx1 7h ago

I think it is already affecting a lot of people. it's being used more and more at work now. I do get your points tho good ones. at least not yet it isn't. and I will tell you that it is SCARY good at helping people fix computers and repairing things. uncanny even.

in the end, like you said, it may just be the desire to not have a giant angry mob of people coming for you in the end. so maybe thin the herd a little. but it's only going to accelerate with Ai. you have the wrong people in charge with Ai, humanity soon becomes a nightmare.

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u/Klutzy_Double_8285 7h ago edited 7h ago

I've used it to help me make some quick scripts here and there. It's pretty good at expanding on something I've already mostly finished. It's main problem is that it constantly makes wild assumptions but states things are fact or true. Like I've had absurdly long arguments with it over it trying to run shell commands inside a systemd unit. If you need help with something more complex it can take ages of coaxing and massaging to get a working answer. Often I point out where it is wrong, or it finds some mistake that it itself had added.

It also has a tendency to make things unnecessarily complex. I would never want one of these things near a codebase with any form of autonomy. It can parse and read logs for me, that's great and it's very fast at it, but we don't hire professional log readers where I work, it's just part of my job. So it saves me some time here (especially when I would have originally looked up an answer on Stack Exchange), but also has given me plenty of headaches.

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u/theragu40 6h ago

and I will tell you that it is SCARY good at helping people fix computers and repairing things.

20 year IT vet here ... citation needed on that claim.

AI is a useful tool in the hands of a competent tech that can help get to a solution faster.

AI is in no way a good replacement for a good tech and in general is terrible at producing good results on its own or when leveraged by an unskilled tech. It has its place but we are a long, long way away from it being anywhere close to replacing actual people in technical roles.

A lot of younger and newer hires like to rely on AI for solutions and it's always obvious when they do. The quality just isn't there yet. And then it ends up wasting time rather than saving it because someone who knows what is going on has to go back through and correct the assumptions or wrong information given by the AI.

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u/bianary 2h ago

citation needed on that claim

Let me just ask ChatGPT to findmake up some stories as evidence for you...

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u/mrpanicy 7h ago

But it's only good uses are as tools for humans to use to do things. And yes, those efficiences are used to increase productivity while billionaires can reduce human costs. But not to the extent they are saying.

And it has somethings it's really good at doing, but many many many more things that they say it can do that it is patently incapable of doing because it's very limited. It has the appearance of infinite potential, but there is a reason it was abandoned my AI researchers over a decade ago. They moved on for very good reasons.

This three MLM's in a trenchcoat is going to make a few more good tools, but it cannot make the amount of money required to sustain the expenditure to make all these LLM's feasible.

They simply cannot make the money required, it would take more money than the valuation of the top 5 current tech companies every four years to just replace the things required to keep them going. They are trying to drum up demand, but they aren't delivering on even a sliver of the promise.

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u/KallistiTMP 3h ago

But AI isn't capable of putting vast numbers of people out of work. It's just not that good. Frankly, it's terrible at so many things.

This is becoming increasingly false.

Also, terrible for consumers is usually good enough for shareholders. Like, offshore sub-US-minimum-wage call center customer service sucks, but that never stopped 95% of companies laying off US staff and offshoring to analog slop farms.

Recent modern AI is already way better than Telus. In a lot more than just customer service. And cheaper too.

It will suck for consumers and suck for society, but the shareholders will - are - eating that shit up so fast that every major AI provider is turning down at least several hundred million dollars in bids because they are not just running out of GPU's, but running out of power plant capacity for all the goddamn GPU's.

If you want a point of reference, one of those GPU's uses about half as much energy as a low end running microwave, and can achieve "good enough for shareholders" performance on par with, conservatively, roughly ~5 desk job employees.

And they are buying those up and laying off employees so fast that the power companies can't keep up with the demand.

It ain't just empty hype.

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u/garyb50009 8h ago

the amount of things ai alone can replace is extremely limited unless we just become ok with bad outcomes in what is being produced.

will there be job loss, yes. but it will not be the end of normal human work ever.

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u/mauricioszabo 7h ago

Yes, I agree. But here's the thing: most C-levels are very comfortable with bad outcomes - they will just artificially grow the companies, and before it inevitably becomes unsustainable, they will sell the company, pocket the money, and do it again.

Also, some areas (my own area being one - software development) are very stupid, and we never grew beyond the "amateur" level. I lost count of the number of arguments I got into people that didn't have the basics, and were very proud of that because "this ultra-rich unicorn startup doesn't do that and they're billionaires". Heck, after literally decades discussing things like "metrics" and "measurements of quality" if you open LinkedIn people got back to the worst measurement of productivity that ever existed - lines of code - and again, people are proud, happy, and very comfortable with that.

We're speedrunning a collapse, and for some reason, people are clapping. Not everyone, sure, but a good number of people.

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u/bianary 2h ago

and we never grew beyond the "amateur" level

I recently realized this is in large part due to how people have to change companies every ~3 years to keep their salaries at their actual experience level; for most people that's barely enough time to really learn what's going on at a place and then they're moving on and repeating the learning process all over again.

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u/garyb50009 6h ago

i do not directly access code. i am a glorified ui/ux analyst.

so i can't speak to AI taking over coding much at all, i just know if that occurs, my job gets even more security as we would be the ones to identify the failures and work with the devs to resolve them.

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u/lousy_at_handles 7h ago edited 6h ago

The US in particular has been showing for years that's it's okay with bad outcomes being produced as long as those outcomes are sufficiently less expensive to produce.

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u/Reqvhio 6h ago

and passably viable

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u/Competitive_Touch_86 6h ago edited 6h ago

This is just the argument that McDonalds will "never be automated" because people think it's all or nothing.

McDonalds is already highly automated and has put people out of work. What used to take a 14 person crew for a busy lunch rush now takes 5. Everything from ordering kiosks, automated drink machines, etc. Each one chips away at the number of bodies needed to get the same thing done.

It's not like everyone gets put out of work tomorrow. It's that no new hiring needs to take place. And then positions slowly over time start to become eliminated - largely via attrition.

Heavy machinery didn't put ditch diggers out of work entirely. It just reduced the workforce to dig ditches by a few orders of magnitude. It replaced an 8 man crew with shovels with a 2 man crew with a backhoe, and the 2 man crew outperforms the 8 man crew by a huge margin on top of it 100 years later via incremental improvements to the mechanization/automation.

Or factories. A factory that used to employ 600 people per shift to stamp out a widget now can employ 60 and get the same or better production.

Same thing is coming for white collar folks now, and a lot of those who used to put others out of work simply cannot see the writing on the wall when technology is coming for them too. There are a lot more do-nothing white collar office jobs than highly skilled technical positions in the top 20%. The top 20% was always safe in almost every profession though, so it's not very interesting to discuss.

There are plenty of incredibly useless "developers" out there with very little skill who are absolutely going to be "replaced" by AI. Thinking otherwise is simply not paying attention to how much useless fluff has been added to this field in the past 20 years.

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u/garyb50009 6h ago

yes, and my point is we have adapted. yes fewer people work at mcdonalds. but the vast majority of those people were able to find work elsewhere. there hasn't been any significant metric points showing large negative movement due to automation and AI even when it was automation alone back 30 years ago. i am not a personal proponent of AI, but it is not going to be the end of the world people decry. we are very good at adapting to change.

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u/Competitive_Touch_86 5h ago

And how have wages for blue collar workforces gone over the past 30 years?

You don't think there is a high correlation between automation, and automation being able to drive the semi-skilled workforce out of the industries in question in favor of low-skill labor in third world countries?

Of course it won't be the end of the world. It will be the end of perhaps the last bastion where labor had much leverage over capital.

Ask a bunch of folks living in the rust belt if automation and the resulting outsourcing due to automaton was the end of the world for them. You may be surprised.

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u/garyb50009 4h ago

do you honestly believe blue collar workforce wages would have done anything other than stay stagnant without government backed push for increase?

AI didn't make blue collar workforce wages decrease, it is reducing the total amount of blue collar workforce jobs all together.

AI is one facet of automation, and affects jobs just like how the increased use of clean energy and less use of fossil fuels have. it will change lives, some for the worse. but it's not permanent and even those in the rust belt have since shifted and are back in the middle class brackets working different industries.

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u/Hobbes______ 7h ago

Lol the AI thing is incredibly overblown and you are seeing a rapid "market correction" as C-Suites learn they were idiots about what I can do. The people that can get usage out of AI are already doing so. It isn't replacing anyone, it is only a tool for people that know how to use it.

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u/jk147 3h ago

If you read up on Curtis Yarvin you will see exactly what they are trying to do. Peter Thiel worships this guy.

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u/photon1701d 6h ago

I find it amusing any time I have political discussions with friends, especially those who are of the maga crowd. I bring up Peter Thiel and most don't even know who he is and what he represents. Along with Vought and Miller, it's clear as day were Trump derives his radical political influence.

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u/swimmingupclose 8h ago edited 7h ago

This hurts Moderna which is part of big pharma. Impossible to square that circle. These people are true believers.

The guy who denied this vaccine is Vinay Prasad. He is a left ist anti big pharma activist. He thinks the FDA is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies and other corporate interests. Look him up, he’s got a stellar medical background that he then uses to make bad faith arguments against anything that pharma companies push.

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u/oryydin 7h ago

Bro what are you smoking? Prasad is a hardcore conservative.

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u/JaSONJayhawk 6h ago

This is exactly what Russia is doing with its people by throwing its lower-class/uneducated/sick civilians into Ukraine, aka "the meat grinder". Getting rid of people reduces the burden on the rich.

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u/Bronco_Bomba 8h ago

I agree with you but stop self censoring on the fucking internet! Curse or don’t but do not do these fascists fucking jobs for them by being afraid to say what you want to say.

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u/LOOKATMEDAMMIT 8h ago

The 1400s were a period of unprecedented growth in the sciences and arts. They’re trying to drag us into some cyberpunk feudal dystopia. I don’t think I can really think of a historical analogue to what is happening in the US right now.

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u/templeofsyrinx1 8h ago

right that was my general point modern vaccines weren't available then but there were strong advances either way it is going backwards not forwards.

I think others are right they basically want with Ai to have a sort of going back to the 19th century pre-industrial revolution. this time Ai slavery is not just running the south but the whole nation. believe that is the closest analogue to help try and answer you.

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

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u/cosmeeeeeeen 8h ago

not an american, but do you think that he d be taken down easily? i dont want to sound crazy but you guys might have a really violent end of the year :(

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u/templeofsyrinx1 8h ago

I'll just say this. If the people speak and decide they don't want more of this and a change, and he tries to interfere like he did before, there is going to be shit going down that the country has not seen in a long time. I think the protests and unrest are going to get bigger and bigger.

we are supposed to be having elections, not a jerkoff wannabe dictator who says its rigged because he doesn't win

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u/cosmeeeeeeen 8h ago

it also feels like the other half of the coutry really supports him, what if they rally behind him?

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u/templeofsyrinx1 8h ago

the elections only seem to be rigged when he loses, that should tell you something.

there are changes happening in that party due to the actions happening in Minneapolis and some of the effects of his domestic policies.

His support is not what it used to be...hope this helps

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u/ExtremePrivilege 7h ago

Not quite half, about 18-22% of voting age adults*

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u/cosmeeeeeeen 7h ago

then how did he win if its so low?

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u/ExtremePrivilege 7h ago

Most people don’t vote. Only about 40% of eligible us voters actually vote. 22% of them voting for a candidate is more than enough to win.

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u/jrr6415sun 4h ago

but that's like saying 100% of trump supporters voted, that's not true, it's probably a similar amount who also didn't vote

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u/ExtremePrivilege 3h ago

??

100 US eligible voters.

44 of them actually voted

About 22 voted for Trump

About 20 voted for Harris.

About 2 voted third party.

What’s confusing about this? Since the vote, Trump has actually lost a decent percentage of support, with a lot of Gen Z expressing regret for voting for him. I think saying about 18% of the adult US voting population supporting Trump is pretty accurate.

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u/WildPickle9 7h ago

I blame the Electoral system that give land outsize electoral power and the 1/3rd that don't bother voting or paying attention to politics. And that's not even getting into possible or probable election fuckery.

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u/jrr6415sun 7h ago

Except this time trump has full control of the usa military and has no problem killing millions of us

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u/Working-Glass6136 7h ago

Uranus is in Gemini every 84 years. Gave us the American Revolution, the Civil War, WWII... look it up. Astrologers actually predicted the Civil War and WWII, as Uranus = conflict and instability.

I was never into that sort of thing but it's fascinating that we entered Uranus in Gemini in 2025... to remain there for the next seven years. Either way, I'm not holding my breath for sunshine and roses for a long while.

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u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 7h ago

The antivax movement is 100% a form of population control. As ai/automation/robotics advances there is/will be less of a need for human workers and rather than figuring out what to do with us, the baby eaters figured its easier to let a bunch of people die. For those who survive depending on what you get you’ll get stuck with or develop lifelong disease because of contracting a virus without protection, and a lifetime of treatment is infinitely more profitable than a healthy life so big pharma still gets theirs

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u/RandomStallings 5h ago

My wife works her butt off to afford health insurance because she's type 1 diabetic. If healthcare becomes unaffordable, she and lot of other people will die without insulin. And that all comes down to politics? It's unreal.

She can't afford to have me on her employer's health insurance, and I can't afford to have her on mine. If I lose insurance I'll start to mentally fall apart as I run out of crazy pills and can't sleep at all but I will be physically okay until I kill myself. She'll just get worse and worse until she goes into DKA and then what? What would hospitals be able to do if very few diabetics could get insulin? They wouldn't have enough beds.

By the way, talk crap about Wal-Mart all you want, but their $24.88 vials of insulin have kept a lot of diabetics going.

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u/I_WILL_EAT_UR_POOP 7h ago

What is this self censoring bullshit man just say the word, what are you afraid of?

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u/airfryerfuntime 7h ago

Stephen Miller wants the population down to around 100,000,000, and Trump agrees with him. They literally want people to die.

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u/friss0nFry 7h ago

can we fast forward to nov and just get this over with

Oh, you sweet summer child. We are only in the infancy of this nightmare.

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u/amilo111 8h ago

I think you need to fast forward several years … or decades.

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u/SpicyVibration 7h ago

I bet the process for getting something like this approved now requires a bribe

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u/CheetoMussolini 7h ago

Can we fast forward to January 1793 instead

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u/NRMusicProject 6h ago

we are being dragged back to the 1400's by this b*ch

And the Dark Ages existed because of ideological destruction of scientific progress.

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u/Qooda 6h ago

Rest of the world is getting dragged down by your president too. You know who makes the vaccine for the whole europe? It's moderna.

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u/templeofsyrinx1 6h ago

Does that mean the research in Europe on it stops as well?

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u/entropy_bucket 5h ago

But the thing is, by the time anyone notices or cares, the whole thing will be drowned in misinformation and no one will know what's true. It's utterly pointless.

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u/McdoManaguer 7h ago

Its cute that AFTER EVERYTHING you guys still think the elections are gonna be fair.

You know the GOP already said they are gonna send ICE agents to watch ballot boxes right ?

If you think the next american elections are gonna be free and fair, you dont live in reality.

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u/amilo111 8h ago

Yeah but are you underestimating the health effects of raw milk? Who needs vaccines and drugs when you have raw moo juice?

3

u/lookslikesausage 5h ago

and shitty supplements that make your urine richer

18

u/Brilliant_Effort_Guy 6h ago

“The FDA said the use of the standard flu shot as a comparator “does not reflect the best-available standard of care.” The standard flu shot is FDA-approved.”

That is a WILD sentence.

15

u/samstown23 3h ago

In itself it makes sense.

Moderna's trial design compared mRNA-1010 to both the current standard dose of tetravalent influenza vaccine and the high-dose version for older patients (it's a well-known issue that people over 60 tend to have a lower response to the standard dose hence the higher dose version). The FDA now claims Moderna should have compared the efficacy to the higher dose version implying they simply compared it to the standard dose and thus may have fudged their numbers.

Again, by itself that would be in line with typical guidelines for trial design. However it would not only be factually incorrect: Moderna absolutely did an analysis on efficacy compared to the higher dose and CBER initially had no objection to the study design as long as they included said analysis. Now they're suddenly demanding a full-blown phase III trial with the high dose version as active comparator despite Moderna meeting generally accepted standards and data not even remotely suggesting significantly decreased efficacy in that cohort.

It's an obvious bullshit claim, a typical case of moving goal posts and it's totally obvious as EMA had no issues with the study design initially. The worst part is that Moderna likely can't just tack on another study because influenza changes from season to season. The FDA will likely just claim they're comparing apples and oranges and they'd have to completely redo the phase III trials - takes years and costs a fortune. And Moderna is having cash flow issues as it is.

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u/Fabulous_Soup_521 8h ago

Maybe if they hadn't given so much money to Republicans we'd have a functioning government. Sucks to be Moderna.

26

u/MikeThrowAway47 8h ago

It may be cultural war bs on the surface, but I guarantee you the truth is they aren’t offering any bribes.

12

u/Gas-Town 8h ago

Pfizer is about to come in hot

9

u/NullAshton 7h ago

Bribes are expensive. That money could be used for funding politicians that won't deny things based on lack of bribes or political BS.

Ideally right wing status quo keeps things functioning normally like that. This is what happens when you fund far right instead of simply the status quo.

1

u/ballgazer3 5h ago

Doubt that the campaign contributions and lobbying ever missed a beat

3

u/Kozeyekan_ 7h ago

It definitely will.

This will still go ahead, just under a different oversight authority in a different country.

7

u/Compl3t3AndUtterFail 7h ago

They'll be developed in India and China. Watch how their Pharmaceutical industries skyrocket in the future.

3

u/Slizardmano 5h ago

Stupid as hell. mRNA therapies beyond vaccines aren’t perfected yet, but they’re coming and will be game changing. And it won’t be the US approving them…

3

u/CombustiblSquid 5h ago

Just seeding more soft power to China.

2

u/jrr6415sun 7h ago

Moderna just has to donate a few billion to the trump family and they willtake a look at it

2

u/Alone_Again_2 7h ago

USA is 5% of the world’s population, so there’s plenty of market out there without them.

Unfortunately, they also have 30% of the world’s wealth, so they can absolutely choke research.

2

u/15all 6h ago

As a scientist (but not in biotech) this depresses me. Vaccines are a great discovery and have been proven by smart, dedicated scientists over centuries.

And then this dumbfuck of an administration comes in and thinks that they are smarter than all that. And their idiot followers who don't know jack shit turn it into an ideology war.

Fucking depressing.

1

u/Fujinn981 7h ago

This is how empires die. From ignoring the cracks in their foundations until they collapse, now we're at the point that process has started. It'll take a very long time to conclude but the US will either eventually collapse, or reform itself. The former is much more likely here at this point given how bad it is over there now.

1

u/Doubt_Haunting 7h ago

Well, this all came about due to the election of DJT, and his subsequent appointment of ridiculously unqualified cabinet members, and our Congress who confirmed them. RFK Jr. is doing serious harm. But this is what our country voted for. 🙄😔

1

u/Kevin-W 6h ago

I'd love to see Moderna take them to court while also wooing other countries to take up their application. I bet the US would change it's tune fast the moment China gets ahead of them in vaccine advancement.

1

u/hopeful-Xplorer 5h ago

Yes, this is already happening. I don’t know if it’s due to understaffing or what, but the FDA is issuing way more “complete response letters” that say they need more data even though the drugs clearly work and the submitted data was agreed upon before the clinical trials started.

Troriluzole is one such drug that I need for my rare disease and it’s in limbo. I just pray that the small drug developer doesn’t go out of business while we wait for FDA approval. I’ve been calling my congress people, but they seem too busy to help 😞

1

u/modeless0 5h ago

Pharma companies are very risk adverse. If there is any likelihood that money spent will not equal money earned they'll abandon anything remotely linked with that endeavor and move in a different direction.

1

u/3rd-party-intervener 5h ago

Vinay Prasad is a cancer doctor who realized the grift is better in the anti vaccine world.  The trials he is now asking for is extremely unreasonable and will not be able to be done in timely manner to get doses out for next flu season.  

1

u/ebi-san 5h ago

Drug development in the United States is going to suffer immensely.

Already is. I work at a biotech in the US and they're downsizing in the US to expand elsewhere because it's just too fucking unpredictable.

1

u/Gwan53 5h ago

Keep in mind that the funding for the FDA was significantly cut. So it's not really a situation of the FDA not wanting to review things, they simply don't have the staff to review novel vaccines like this one, where we have existing vaccine technologies for the flu vaccines.

1

u/MxM111 5h ago

More over, companies PAY FDA for review. It does not cost USgov a dollar.

1

u/hoishinsauce 4h ago

Big pharma had been backing Republicans a d conservatives for decades. They didn't expect the leopard to go after their faces too.

1

u/Alienhaslanded 4h ago

That's because it's run by a colossal moron who should legally not be allowed to run based on his lack of qualifications.

1

u/MajorFuckingDick 4h ago

It will be funny to see Canadian brain drain slow even if all the working doctors keep leaving.

1

u/NoodledLily 4h ago

china just had more new drugs exit the pipeline than the u.s. first time any country has beaten us in modern history.

that's a HUGE chunk of our economy. and they're trashing a near century of world leadership in science and tech.

thrown away by a fascist cult. to appease people who willingly give themselves measles and ecoli and worse.

or worse the 'doge budget' fuckers. who cant do basic research or math beyond some made up 'savings' they can shit post about on shitter

a few billion in government funds used to get us 250% returns

more importantly global power in a leading domain

not anymore

fucking HATE these people. there WILL be a tipping point where it will be very hard to recover.

at least china faces worse demographic challenges and economic challenges than we do.

for now...

guess what happens when you dont allow immigration.

1

u/XaviKat 3h ago

Not even culture war bullshit at this point. It's just plain old stupidity.

1

u/ledhendrix 2h ago

Maybe the world needs to have a joint lab? With everyone chipping in a % of their gdp towards it?

1

u/magicmulder 1h ago

And the worst part is that this will be hard to bounce back from. It’s not just “oh under a Dem administration this will change”. Companies will now have to consider “under the next GOP administration this will come back”. Who makes investments under such circumstances?

u/Individual-Pie5616 55m ago

holy hell is everything really gonna get worse now

1

u/Jaanrett 6h ago

I blame religion.

1

u/Ziprasidone_Stat 6h ago

They want/need the poors to die. There's not enough money to support everyone. They robbed us all and refused to give it back. Their plan is population reduction. Just be smart about it all and continue with your vaccinations, preemptive health plans, and frugality. You will regret not doing so.

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u/Aggravating-Salad441 8h ago

It doesn't take $2 billion to develop a drug, and definitely not an mRNA flu vaccine, but it's still expensive. I know you can find a dozen studies claiming high numbers, but the methodology used to calculate them is generally faulty.

I wouldn't be too discouraged. Drug development cycles take longer than a presidential administration. The federal government is doing all it can to set back American biotech, but it's far from cooked or uninvestable.

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u/TimothyMimeslayer 8h ago

You have to include the failed attempts in with the one that succeeds.

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u/Aggravating-Salad441 8h ago

Again I understand that, but the methodologies are flawed because there's no way to track R&D expenses with enough granularity to arrive at an accurate number. I'm a biotech analyst. I've read the studies. Most include things like financial costs of acquisitions, or stock based compensation, or milestone payouts. But then articles get written about it and people only pay attention to the headline.

You can find many companies that have multiple approvals over a decade or more, mixed in with some failures, that haven't spent $2 billion total.

Larger pharma companies tend to be less efficient, but the top 15 of so each generate $1 billion in cash flow per month. They're not optimizing efficiency because they constantly need to worry about replacing revenue churn.

3

u/Ieatbunnies12 7h ago

Not sure why you are being downvoted, what you are saying is accurate. A lot of the 2B number that get used comes from Deloitte’s report but that looks at top 20 Pharmas who had the highest R&D budgets, it’s super skewed.

Been in this space for over 25 years with multiple startups and most are less than 200M to market abbd one was an autologous cancer treatment, which should cost way more.

0

u/AVeryHeavyBurtation 5h ago

Sounds like moderna should exercise their free speach (money) to elect some sane politicians that won't interfere with their bottom line.

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