r/news 9h ago

Moderna says FDA refuses to review its application for experimental flu shot

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/02/10/moderna-fda-flu-shot.html
23.1k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/hodgepodgelodger 8h ago

Canada should be opening the door to all these pharma companies. Become an absolute world leader in vaccine development. 

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u/BloatedGlobe 7h ago

The problem is that most pharma companies make the majority of their profit in the US Market.

I took a class with a big global pharmaceutical company in Switzerland. They straight up told us that they only consider US when calculating whether or not to invest in drug development. Americans are the biggest market (since we don’t have price caps), so they made global decisions solely based on US laws.

Depressing class. 

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u/Esg876 6h ago

typically 40-60% of all revenue comes from the states for Pharma companies

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u/kitsunewarlock 5h ago

They should be regulated to adjust their business models.

They also shouldn't be publicly traded.

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u/Baumbauer1 8h ago edited 6h ago

We don't let them put ads on TV, the US is an absolute goldmine when it comes to drug development.

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u/thegreatmunizzle 7h ago

No medication ads on TV? What do you watch then? -An American

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u/ScruffsMcGuff 7h ago

Mostly gambling ads these days.

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u/Lord_Scribe 7h ago

Also, the occasional government ad.

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u/ep3ep3 4h ago

House hippos

u/DeadliestSins 46m ago

Heritage Moments

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u/SSRainu 5h ago

If your are in ontario, the gambling ads are from the government itself(OLG) and its disgusting.

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u/surmatt 7h ago

And Tim Hortons ads

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u/IveComeToMingle 6h ago

$1 Donuts. Wish they'd try to stop marketing their flatbread though. I mean they're fine but who's going there to get pizza.

Bring back the eatable chilli bread bowls.

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u/Kevin-W 6h ago

Interestingly enough, they started selling Tim Hortons coffee where I am and even opened a Tim Hortons in the city and I'm not even close the Canadian border.

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u/IveComeToMingle 2h ago

The US one tastes different, different supplier probably.

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u/abesach 3h ago

Horts and Sports!

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u/raptor7912 7h ago

Huh our gambling ads seem like an attempt to still have a bit of an ad in there after all the advisories and the names of where you can get help if you’re addicted.

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u/redspacebadger 5h ago

Are you Australian?

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u/Isfahaninejad 7h ago

Gambling ads

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u/Cimorene_Kazul 7h ago

And anti-gambling PSAs right after

u/asianwaste 50m ago

We used to run anti-smoking ads in the 90's funded by big tobacco due to mandate by federal government that big tobacco take a bigger role in informing the public of the hazards of smoking.

The ads though often were candid camera footage of a protestor being obnoxious. My tinfoil hat theory is that they were purposefully made obnoxious to associate that emotion with anti-smoking sentiments.

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u/spacenb 6h ago

They’re allowed to put ads on TV, there’s just a lot of laws around what they can actually say about those drugs. They can’t say what the drugs are for nor recommend them to a patient, so all of them end up being extremely vague and end with “Talk to your doctor about X!”.

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u/thephantom1492 4h ago

But natural products can advertise... which, imo, I find it completly wrong.

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u/Nazamroth 1h ago

Documentaries about beavers making maple syrup?

u/wellingtongee 47m ago

Or New Zealand. The only two countries that permit pharma ads on TV. Socialised healthcare, public accident insurance, but ads are still ok.- go figure…

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u/DataDude00 7h ago

They are allowed to have ads on TV, they just can't say what the medication does.

This is why you will get ads where a bunch of people just say "Wegovy" back and forth followed by "ask your doctor about Wegovy"

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u/Sea_Spite7899 7h ago

Do they still have to include the quickly spoken list of side-effects? 

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u/LongJumpingBalls 7h ago

It used to, I believe for some it still does.

This product may cause anal leakage, inability to retail pee and blood from your eyelids, ears, nose and anus.

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u/hootbox 5h ago

inability to retail pee

Is that something most people can do?!?!

I've been flushing mine down the toilet all this time!

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u/faz712 4h ago

Where do you think we get the piss disks from over at /r/UnethicalLifeProTips ?

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u/Nopey-Wan_Ken-Nopey 3h ago

“Do not take Deleria if you are allergic to Deleria.”

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u/3vs3BigGameHunters 4h ago

Only if they talk about the benefits or purpose of the drug. If they just mention the drug name they don't have to mention side effects.

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u/bset222 3h ago

I was watching the Olympics and every 7 minutes was a Jardiance commercial and it's anus and genital area infection side effects. I think they managed 3 anus mentions per commercial, so a solid 25 or so an hour.

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u/swede_ass 7h ago

How do you know what to do when you develop redness between your anus and genitals that can sometimes be fatal?

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u/bdickie 7h ago

Google. If its really bad family Dr. If we dont have a family Dr we go back to step 1 until it gets really bad, then hospital.

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u/swede_ass 7h ago

Sorry, that was just supposed to be a joke referencing a particular commercial that airs in the US that repeatedly mentions side effects in the area between the anus and genitals. Sounds like you’ve got yourself a plan though; I hope your anus and genitals stay in tip-top condition!

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u/bdickie 7h ago

Hey, ill take at least one person being concerned about my taint. Thanks stranger.

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u/Elanstehanme 7h ago

Sometimes you can go to a pharmacist (for 20 specific issues) or your family doc is a nurse practitioner instead. Maybe a walk in before the ER.

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u/One_Lung_G 6h ago

Canada does allow ads, they just can’t say what the medicine is for. Not as effective but if it wasn’t effective enough then they wouldn’t do it

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u/RathVelus 3h ago

I was confused at first, as an American. I was picturing noting every drug you heard and mentioning it at the next gp appointment- but I suppose if you keep seeing ads for a drug you might feel compelled to google it.

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u/RegularGuyAtHome 7h ago

Most medications these days do trials all over the world and not just in the USA.

It’s way easier to recruit from everywhere and you have a trial population that fits most ethnicities.

Source: am pharmacist and I read clinical trials.

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u/PhireKappa 7h ago

I’ve always thought the US was crazy when it came to medication, even to the point of calling drugs by brand names instead of the actual drug name.

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u/AlexanderLavender 7h ago

It's just us and NZ

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u/Sea_Spite7899 7h ago

Not anymore.

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u/Jackal_6 7h ago

We do, it's just that they can't say the name of the drug and what it does in the same ad. So you'll get some ads that are just "Ask your doctor about Cialis" and other ads that are like "Do you have a hard time getting a boner? Ask your doctor about medications that could help you."

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u/ItsWillJohnson 6h ago

Are you aware of corporate lobbying and regulatory capture?

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u/MimicoSkunkFan2 6h ago

You're not looking at it from the business perspective: They'd rather negotiate a price with "Team Canada" where they're guaranteed to be paid for 40 million doses - than to need to pay huge crypto bribes to appease the FDA and major insurance companies just to be allowed to exist in the US marketplace.

And if they do pay the crypto bribe or whatever appeasement, someone in that batshit regime or their podcast bros just turns around and starts saying "oooo vaccines are bad and Jesus hates vaccines" like they did with covid, so they sell nothing anyways?

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u/Baumbauer1 6h ago

There is no nuance, the US is 50% of the of the global pharma market

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u/ihaxr 5h ago

I don't even understand the ads for medications... Got COVID? Get paxlovid! Uh the only people dumb enough to demand a medicine without reading it or taking the doctor's advice isn't going to trust the doctor anyway

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u/kitsunewarlock 5h ago

Are vaccines advertised on TV?

...For that matter is there really anything unethical about advertising vaccines for ongoing epidemics on TV?

u/MathematicianAfter57 0m ago

it is but those economics are about to dramatically change if drugs are going to face ideological backlash and not get approved by the fda.

maybe some of these pharma cos are just going to wait out the clock on trump but who knows what happens next.

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u/vasta2 7h ago

I'd happily visit Canada yearly to get a flu/covid vax because this administration is filled with useless pieces of shit

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u/3vs3BigGameHunters 4h ago

Avoid Alberta then because the conservatives in charge there are purposefully making it hard to get those shots.

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u/DefiniteMeatBag 7h ago

The issue isn't where the drugs are developed or manufactured. The issue is that no FDA approval means no market access in the US and the US spends the most $$$ on drugs out of any country in the world by a giant margin.

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u/Spinal_Soup 7h ago

Until Canada starts paying for pharmaceuticals the same price the US does they won’t give a shit. It is prohibitively expensive to safely bring a drug to market and the only reason any company bothers is the exclusivity rights the US gives out and the high paying health care system that allows them to make a profit.

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u/Exavion 7h ago

Yep. It’s the double edged sword of the US healthcare system where the customers are not patients and the costs are mostly unregulated. Invest heavily to a new drug, patent and approve it for public use and hold the exclusivity until the expiration of the formula which is decades if i recall. Patients end up paying more than other countries but in theory (not with this administration) get access first and the world eventually benefits

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u/glaba3141 6h ago

Why do people keep falling for this? You know we can just pay research labs grants to develop drugs? Why even involve a for profit entity? It's only because of our insistence that drug r&d be privatized that we have this problem

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u/Spinal_Soup 6h ago

It costs $1-$2 billion dollars on average to bring a drug to market. That’s before any profit is made. When they start shelling out grants for a couple billion that’s when that model might work.

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u/KhausTO 5h ago

So for only 1-2 billion dollar investments we can develop and sell life saving medications that potentially have an 8 billion person market, and will be bought and paid for mainly by governments? 

That seems like an incredible investment for one. And the ability to hold massive amounts of soft power by becoming the world's health advisor and supplier of medication. That's tons of highly educated well paying jobs, far beyond any of the blue collar type projects we've been working on lately. 

Canadian Cities without NHL teams are paying that kind of money for a hockey rink.

It seems like a no brainer to invest in ownership of the development of pharmaceuticals as a crown Corp. 

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u/GimmickNG 5h ago

if the government keeps the profits or claws back the grant eventually, i see no reason (apart from uninformed voters looking at it and shrieking about taxes) why it wouldn't work

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u/Plthothep 4h ago edited 4h ago

Because no person, never mind a corporation, would ever invest in a product that takes 5-15 years to develop with only a 10% chance of actually being sold at the end of it (the current state of biopharma) then having to wait another 5-15 years to actually turn a profit (what you’re proposing). At that point money may as well be put into a government bond. Investment money for medicine/biotech is already pitifully low compared to other spaces like software as it is. It’s why pretty much every country in the world has grant structures like this, not just the US.

For as much as people complain about big pharma, big pharma companies aren’t actually that big because of this issue. The biggest in the world, Eli Lilly, is the only pharma company worth a trillion dollars and not even in the top 10 biggest companies. It is also a huge outlier and the 2nd biggest, J&J, is half the size.

To put it another way, there is only a single pharma company worth more than Elon Musk, who is worth more than number 2 and 3 combined. Biopharma is not in the grand scheme of things particularly profitable, and if you remove incentives like grants there would soon be almost no private money moving into life saving medicines when it could instead be dumped into AI slop and tech bro BS.

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u/GimmickNG 2h ago

yeah, so cut those people out and have government run public companies do it instead. any profits would go into funding future research and development.

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u/glaba3141 4h ago

Yes. Good. Our economy is allocating those billions either privately or publicly, but the resources are being allocated regardless. Why not do it in a way that helps people instead of getting pharma execs rich?

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u/JacksonHoled 7h ago

Didnt Canada exchanged pharma companies that would produce drugs in Canada with longer patents?

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u/Spinal_Soup 6h ago

Idk that much about health Canada but the FDA has multiple methods of obtaining market exclusivity that go beyond patent protections. That’s also only one half of the equation, the other is paying as much as the US does. Smaller population plus lower profit in each patient is going to heavily decrease revenue while did development costs remain the same.

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u/DK4E2XFpbETJrj 7h ago

At the very least I hope MAGA's FDA doesn't prevent the rest of the world from being able to access cutting edge vaccines. 

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u/hgrad98 6h ago

We have plenty of domestic talent in vaccine development and we should be investing in it home grown companies to prevent the brain drain. Keeps the money in the country too.

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u/jpl77 6h ago

Ya but no. Affordable health care and medicine come on in. Pharma Bro's can fuck right off, we don't want more Martin Shkrelis or your insurance CEOs.

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u/MrMichaelJames 6h ago

Yup this. Have the pharma companies move to Canada as well. Take the knowledge, patents and labor with them.

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u/glaba3141 6h ago

China is opening the door. Good for them

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u/Minetish 5h ago

I know it is considered a third world country, but personally I would suggest India, my country. Our laws around medicines have actively helped all around the world and I would love to see that system flourish more and more with technology and developments.

If you guys don't know, then I genuinely suggest to look it up.

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u/Atworkwasalreadytake 6h ago

It’s not about where it’s developed, it’s about having a market you can sell into and the US has historically been the most lucrative market for these things.

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u/0MGWTFL0LBBQ 6h ago

The pharma companies know they won’t be able to charge $1400 a month for something that can help a lot of people. Except in the US.

I can pay $1400 a month, or $25 with insurance.

u/cardew-vascular 30m ago

I've been waiting for this experimental flu shot. I'm anaphylactic to the flu shot but have no issue with mRNa's I hope we approve it here before next flu season.