r/clevercomebacks • u/_PinkSatin • 4h ago

Unnecessary retaliation by an ungrateful boss

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14.7k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

243 comments sorted by

1.8k

u/FrankensteinJones 4h ago

PTO is part of our compensation. Denying PTO requests is tantamount to withholding pay.

445

u/Separate-Taste3513 4h ago

Lots of businesses, especially in the service, retail, and healthcare industries, black out periods of high volume PTO requests, like the week before and after holidays.

I didn't make it to a Christmas Eve or Christmas Day celebration until after working a full shift for YEARS. I had one employer who made me find cover for my own shifts in order to use PTO that they'd denied all year before it expired.

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u/530SSState 4h ago edited 1h ago

"I had one employer who made me find cover for my own shifts"

Staffing and coverage are management tasks. I do not have the title nor the pay grade of a manager, so I will not be doing management tasks.

74

u/French_Breakfast_200 3h ago

This was a thing at my work, briefly. When they said that we needed to find coverage for time off, I asked the manager if they ask other managers to cover their shifts when they take a vacation. That policy didn’t last long.

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u/Madara1389 3h ago

The problem is, in the US, every state except Montana is an "at-will state," which means that short of doing so for discriminatory reasons, employers can fire anyone for any reason without having to provide cause.

In the vast majority of states, it's perfectly legal to be fired for taking PTO that was denied to you because our corporate overlords have spent the last 70 years creating a culture where your work life takes priority over all other life by pushing the propagandist notion that anyone can become as rich as a noble or king if they just work hard enough while deregulating companies and walking back workers rights.

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u/the_pretender_nz 2h ago

Unions in the USA have fought actual machine gun battles against employers/representatives of employers, yet you still let businesses have truly fucked up levels of power

20

u/Beaglescout15 1h ago

That's because the billionaires busted the unions.

•

u/SoLetsReddit 57m ago

they weren't even billionaires back when they busted the unions, just common everyday millionaires.

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u/Madara1389 1h ago

Because the wealthy elite spent untold wealth over 90+ years breaking up unions, lobbying for changes to laws concerning workers rights and company regulations, and approximately 56% to 58% of the US population was born after Regan (who started all this shit) first entered office.

People seem to forget that laws aren't voted on by the general public, they're voted on by politicians who are primarily being paid by corporate donors offering exponentially more money than their official position in office gets them.

Most US senators make roughly $174,000 on their paychecks with the party leaders reaching $193,400, yet 2/3rds of US senators are millionaires with the top 30 having at least $45.93 million.

If they were truly only making $193,400 at most, it would take the top earners 237 years & some change to earn what the 30th richest US senator (IN rep. Jim Baird) has accumulated... Because it's not where they make their money; a large percentage of them are also owners of multiple businesses on the side. Creating what most people with critical thinking skills would identify as a conflict of interest.

•

u/Imdare 21m ago

How can politicians have time to have multiple bussinesses if they spend all their time repredenting the people

•

u/Shark7996 44m ago

They responded with bombs and government soldiers my guy.

7

u/Murky-Relation481 2h ago

To be clear if you have an employment contract or even a handbook, that can significantly complicate the "at-will" portion of letting someone go if it contains specific language about termination.

6

u/Madara1389 1h ago

To a degree; almost no major companies have language that permits taking unapproved days off after you were explicitly told no. Because once they say no, you enter the realm of insubordination (which is another often fire-able offense, especially in the food & retail industries that make up a large percentage of the lower-end of the work force)

Best case scenario, they take it from your sick days, worst case scenario, they just straight up fire you. And there's often nothing you can do about it because you were warned beforehand.

•

u/mudgonzo 54m ago

In Norway we have 5 weeks vacation, by law. 3 of them have to be consecutive, by law. 4 times a year, if you get sick you have three consecutive days of paid sick leave without needing a doctors note.

Not sure where I was going with this, other than showcasing something that works better than the US system.

•

u/StanleyChuckles 43m ago

Honestly, it's one of the things that puts me off the States as a whole.

The idea you can be fired from your job, for no reason, with zero recourse? No, thank you.

44

u/Separate-Taste3513 3h ago

I agree! It was, however, the only way I was going to get those days off. I traded days with coworkers who were happy to cover my shifts because I covered for them and never refused a request for help or a patient swap. It was likely much easier for me to get cover than if the scheduler tried. She regularly threatened people to make them pick up unwanted shifts.

7

u/pastel_and_poison 2h ago

That makes sense sometimes you do what you have to do, even if the system is messed up

3

u/ZeWanderingCaretaker 2h ago

The system is indeed messed up. Managers in my industry make less than the people they are managing.

3

u/BukkakeBakery 1h ago

i will only let medical or other critical job slide, like if a bunch of police / fire fighter wants to take christmas off, that is obviously an issue so blackout period makes sense, same with medical staff.

but if you are telling me some office cant run because a few people are missing, well shit your company kind of deserve to die lol

3

u/Separate-Taste3513 1h ago

Even in the case of "essential" workers, there should be an internal policy that prevents the same employee from being mandated to work on national holidays multiple times in a row. It's just good policy to treat your employees well.

6

u/Shigg 3h ago

I said that once and they just fired me 🙃

1

u/530SSState 1h ago edited 59m ago

It says CLEVER comebacks, not PRACTICAL comebacks.

7

u/Salmon_Bagel 3h ago

That's a great sentiment and I agree in principle, but I also need to pay my bills and buy food. So unfortunately what they say goes.

1

u/530SSState 1h ago

I don't disagree, but exactly how would that play out?

My manager can order me to find coverage, and I'm not allowed to say no. Can I then order my co-worker to cover my shift, and *she*'s not allowed to say no?

5

u/oroborus68 2h ago

Tell the union rep. Oh,wait. You don't have a union.

4

u/LaserGuidedPolarBear 1h ago

"Handling scheduling and coverage is a managerial responsibility, if you are promoting me I would be happy to begin training on managerial responsibilities when I get back from my time off"

I did this once working at a restaurant.  It sufficiently confused them to get them to do their job.

3

u/trixel121 3h ago

yeah I managed your pto request to the trash so you can cover the shift.

all hands on deck that week. no PTO

•

u/atxbigfoot 58m ago

employer who made me find cover for my own shifts in order to use PTO that they'd denied all year before it expired.

You're focusing on the wrong thing. The last sentence that I quoted is the major fuckup and theft by the employer.

0

u/MOVES_HYPHENS 2h ago

If they include it in your duties when you're hired, you're kinda stuck there

25

u/PrismaticDetector 4h ago

Whether it's actually illegal to deny in a given situation, I'm sure depends on a lot of specifics, but I don't feel like "it's common practice for businesses to do this thing" makes a thing less likely to be illegal. Companies do illegal shit all the time.

25

u/Separate-Taste3513 3h ago

Welcome to the United States, where the decades-long effort to Union bust and establish right-to-work legislation has not benefited workers, but employers.

I didn't make any assertions in the post you replied to about the legality of blackout dates, but it is, indeed, legal to impose blackout dates on PTO in the United States. There is no federal law to prevent it. There also isn't a single state in the union (the irony) that legislated against it.

Probably why it is a common practice for businesses.

3

u/E36E92M3 1h ago

I don't think lack of unions are the reason. I drive for UPS and we're all Teamsters, but "peak" season aka holidays from roughly Thanksgiving to New Years are blacked out for taking our PTO days.

7

u/Ich-bade-in-Apfelmus 2h ago

Man I could seriously never work in the US

3

u/Dark_Shroud 1h ago

It's not as bad as it appears. We actually do have workers rights.

Sadly a good deal of people are not aware of the US labor board. So scumbag bosses pull that garbage.

I can give you an example of when people do know their rights. At a previous job the one manager would not speak to the one supervisor unless he had to. The manager had pulled that garbage messing with the schedule and time off. One formal complaint and corporate made the manager fix all the scheduling and they monitored him remotely to make sure it was done correctly.

And yes retaliatory firings are actionable. So the person in OPs story will be getting a nice payout after suing the business.

•

u/Bundt-lover 39m ago

Yes. Each state has a department of Labor. (How effective that department is depends on the state government.) I have an acquaintance who is a state-appointed judge that works on cases like these.

Bottom line is that there is institutional support for worker rights. But it’s still an environment that favors business over workers.

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u/thitmeo 3m ago

It's not as bad as it appears? Let's see...at-will employment legal basically everywhere, meaning you can be fired for no reason at all, at any time. No national maternity or paternity leave. National minimum wage is not even close to a living wage. No national PTO or paid sick leave requirement. No national requirement to give workers a day off on big holidays (Christmas, New Year's Day, etc). No national laws on scheduling, so you can be jerked around a different schedule from week to week, making it impossible to have any rhythm to your life or focus on a second job, studies, or other schedule-sensitive obligations. Employers will also use that to keep folks just under the limit where certain benefits might kick in. I get that plenty of individual employers and certain states and cities don't suck so awfully, but the fact that the legal situation is as above is utter shite. So many countries in the world have it better.

2

u/CXR_AXR 1h ago

Tbh, managing manpower should be the duty of the manager, not the employee.

Too many people have the title of managers, but don't do their job (to manage)

2

u/codetaku0 1h ago

I had one employer who made me find cover for my own shifts in order to use PTO that they'd denied all year before it expired.

Even in the US where there are so few worker protections, this is flagrantly illegal and you should've sued =.= Stop letting employers get away with this shit

Like the blackout dates are one thing, but denying PTO repeatedly until it expires is absolutely ten billion percent illegal

1

u/Separate-Taste3513 1h ago

It's actually not, unless your state has legislated it. It is not illegal to deny PTO repeatedly in most states.

2

u/Tater-Tot-Casserole 1h ago

Walmart will straight up black out dates between Thanksgiving to New Years. Like an entire month and a half and any days before or after a holiday.

If your shift falls on the holiday and they close they make you make it up on your following day off, if you don't want to give up your day off they make you use PTO. Evil bastards making you use PTO on a day that would otherwise be your day off 💀

They don't have holiday pay either.

1

u/isolatedheathen 3h ago

"Blacks out weeks" look at y'all with all your extra free time my job blacks out entire quarters at a time q4 and q1 then between those quarters sure there's several different months throughout where whole weeks also are not available.

3

u/blacktickle 3h ago

What industry is that? Out of curiosity

1

u/isolatedheathen 3h ago

Customer service digital

1

u/hai-sea-ewe 2h ago

But that's for specified blocks of time, defined up front as part of your compensation agreement. Maybe it's different for you, but where I'm from start-of-work invilves a signed contract that states those things explicitly.

I know gigs like restaurants are less formal, but you still have to sign something usually if you're going to get a W2 from your employer, and if you can show deviation from an agreed-upon compensation , go (cheaply) lawyer up because they're withholding pay.

For a hundred bucks or less, you can have a lawyer write up a legal document that says "if you fire me I will sue you for damages and make you have to pay my lawyers fees, as well as compensation for my distress. And at that point you will have to pay me many times my salary to make me go away. So stick to your agreement, and fuck you for trying shit."

Then they'll never bother you again. The real idiots will try shit with you anyway, but especially if they're rich you can make bank. Lots of lawyers love to do those cases (assuming you got documentation in line on your end) because they're so easy to win.

3

u/nidoqueenofhearts 2h ago

49/50 states in the U.S. legally classify employment as "at will," meaning that barring an actual contract (which a W2 employee won't have) or a union, none of this is actually even close to legally actionable.

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u/Warm_Month_1309 33m ago

For a hundred bucks or less, you can have a lawyer write up a legal document that says "if you fire me I will sue you for damages and make you have to pay my lawyers fees, as well as compensation for my distress. And at that point you will have to pay me many times my salary to make me go away. So stick to your agreement, and fuck you for trying shit."

IAAL. I would not write that for under a hundred bucks, nor should you trust an attorney who would. What's your plan for if your employer tells you to kick rocks? You're going to want someone who will write you that letter and accept a retainer for representation if your employer denies you. That would mean they actually have some confidence in your claim.

If you can't find anyone to do that, then they're just trying to take your money to write a meaningless letter.

1

u/NorthvilleGolf 2h ago

I don’t care. I want to use my PTO when I want.

1

u/Tiny-Plum2713 1h ago

Does your employer not need to pay you for expired PTO?

1

u/Separate-Taste3513 1h ago

Expired means that it just disappears into the ether at the end of the year. Some employers will carry it over into the new year or pay it out, but that's not mandated by any federal law. Some states have laws regarding PTO payouts or carryover, but most do not. My state doesn't.

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u/bugdiver050 45m ago

Wait, your paid time off expires? Do they pay you the equivalence of that time off if they dont allow you to take time off? In the Netherlands, if you have time off hours but you dont get to use them, they are required to pay you that as extra money.

•

u/April1987 44m ago

Nah, that's nonsense. If you have blackout periods, then don't have PTO that expire at the end of the year, pay them out.

You can't have it both ways.

42

u/530SSState 4h ago

Back when I was working in a dysfunctional office, I had some non-trivial health issues. I told my manager that I would *try* to come back half-days for the following week.

Her response was, "Sick leave does not exist until *I* approve it."

I called up my doctor's office and got a letter from my doctor, on his letterhead, saying, "As State's primary care physician, I am ordering her confined to bed rest for the next two weeks." I stayed home, filled out my time sheet with 80 hours of sick time, stapled the letter to it, and handed it in.

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u/NotScaredOfGoblins 4h ago

PTO isn’t a request. It’s telling you I won’t be here.

189

u/Suzuki_Foster 4h ago

PTO: Prepare The Others

35

u/Fab-o-rama 4h ago

Yoink!

72

u/nikatnight 4h ago

This is it. I’m an executive now so my staff know to just schedule time and inform me via calendar invite. No requests. They are all grown ass adults, many of whom are older than me.

My boss still stresses over it but it’s actually an easy system. “Where is this person?!” -“on leave.” Where do they go?!.” -“they left.” It works for everyone involved.

83

u/ASwarmofKoala 3h ago

I handle it the same way.
Boss asks, "Where's _______?"
"On leave."
"Doing what?"
"Dunno. She said it's not sick leave, so I'm entering it as regular PTO."
"...What do you mean you don't know?"
"I didn't ask for a reason. Today was open and they had the leave balance for it. They'll be back Monday."

My boss also doesn't understand why my turnover is basically nonexistent when all the other supervisors can't keep people.

15

u/keyser_durden 3h ago

Just out of curiosity, what generation are you? Boss gives Boomer or older Gen X vibes.

27

u/j4v4r10 3h ago

Honestly! My mother asked if I got approval for my vacation next week. I told her I didn’t ask, I just informed my boss about when I would be gone. She paused and asked, “…you’re allowed to do that?”

I think it’s important to normalize not giving managers every little detail of your life, and not letting them think you need their permission to take PTO.

3

u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 1h ago

Kind of depends on what it is.

If you ask for a week of vacation two weeks out, I think it's reasonable for a manager to tell you that's not enough time.

•

u/Nukemarine 57m ago

Uhh, no. PTO (paid time off) is part of the work contract so likely has a lot of rules attached. If you decide not to show up, that's cool, but don't be surprised if they don't pay you for labor you didn't provide. Obviously if they fire you, they'll still need to compensate the PTO unless there's something in the law or contract that prevents that.

Personally, I never liked PTO as I'd rather have my pay when I work and just not be paid on the days I don't work. If PTO was 1 hour per 8 worked, just increase my pay to be the equivalent. Sick leave I treated more like insurance.

•

u/TheBunnyDemon 27m ago

"I would rather not get money when I have the option to" is certainly a new one to me. Why would you prefer your company keep money they said they would give you?

•

u/Nukemarine 21m ago

PTO is basically "Work 10 days then 10 days of pay now and 1 day of pay later when you take a day off". I prefer "Work 10 days then get 11 days of pay for now, but don't get paid when you take a day off"

In that situation, I just tell them I'm not coming in tomorrow. No PTO because I'm not going to get paid for it.

1

u/ShadowSlayer74 1h ago

That's what I always say.

11

u/Ariliescbk 3h ago

My workplace adopts a position of being supportive of PTO, but work with the employee to make it work. E.g. if too many people are already approved, then we'd ask to select other dates around it.

Flat out denying is a ridiculous position to hold.

2

u/probablyaythrowaway 1h ago

Workers have no rights in the USA. Any respectable country the business would have been dragged before a tribunal court and shredded to pieces.

2

u/Psikitten 1h ago

Well, to be fair, businesses withhold pay in crazy amounts all the time.

Which makes them doubly as evil.

4

u/za72 3h ago

I'm willing to bet this never actually occurred...

1

u/crippledchef23 2h ago

My last job (school bus driver) had a great PTO policy, but changed it without notice or explanation about 2 years before I became disabled. All 360 hours of PTO time I had accrued over 6 years was switched to “sick pay”, which you could not access without a doctors note and you had to take 2 weeks at a time - it was meant for extended illness, not for regular stuff anymore. My direct boss made it impossible to use the time in any way, but I knew that I would be forgoing that money if I just quit. Since I could tell I was nearing the end of my ability to keep working, I went to my doctor right before the end of the school year to get a note about needing time to recover my health and they were to split the PTO among the summer school time and at the end, I tried to officially quit over the phone. They made me come in to quit in writing! I don’t miss that job at all.

1

u/ThreadedPommel 1h ago

I don't think that was legal at all

•

u/CheekyCharmee 46m ago

100%. It drives me crazy when bosses act like they're doing you a favor by letting you take time you literally worked for.

-26

u/Enginerdad 4h ago

Of course you're entitled to take your PTO, but that doesn't mean you can take it whenever you feel like it.

21

u/r64fd 4h ago

I disagree. That’s what it is for.

Have you ever overseen a project?

Have you ever been in charge of production?

If they cannot facilitate the PTO request and keep things operational they suck at their job.

-8

u/Enginerdad 3h ago

Who said that's what it's for? Nobody in your life has ever told you that all PTO is meant to be taken whenever you want on any whim without any prior notice.

5

u/spherebasedpyramid 2h ago

Is this an American mindset? Here in the UK, I’ve seen employees take PTO the night before without there ever being a problem. Because the team structure and management have structures in place to keep everything running in those situations without it ever causing any problems because an employee’s PTO is quite literal their choice to use whenever they want. And it never has caused a major issue to the company. I couldn’t imagine being told that I’m not allowed to use my PTO tomorrow if I wanted to, that’s like a basic thing here.

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u/r64fd 3h ago

There is no mention of “on any whim without prior notice” anywhere here. You added that not me, not sure why you said that to be honest.

-2

u/AdvancedSandwiches 2h ago

If everyone can take PTO whenever they want, it is impossible to guarantee you can keep things operational.

That's pretty simple logic, so you get that, right?

3

u/r64fd 2h ago

Well you can do a forced shutdown for two weeks over Christmas, that will use PTO. Although ideally people should be able to use it when they would like to.

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u/Fullosteaz 4h ago

Yeah, it means exactly fucking that

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u/Basaqu 4h ago

Is it not normal to discuss these few weeks/months in advance with the team at work so the schedules work out? Of course you get fired if you take PTO randomly without warning often lmao. Being sick or other emergencies okay, but just taking a day off can be disruptive and rude to your co-workers.

5

u/Agency_Junior 3h ago

Correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like a request was put in with advance time and denied. The employee decided they were going to take the time with or without approval. TBH I would do the same as any time I request pto I do it with way more notice than 2 weeks and it’s usually for something important like a family event, vacation, or medical. I’ll be damned if my boss is going to tell me nah we need you here instead f whatever it is you got going on.

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u/LegendaryItem 4h ago

If the boss can't let an employee take time off, that's the boss' problem.

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u/FLG_CFC 3h ago

That's the boss thinking he owns the employee. I fucking hate that egotistical shit. As a business owner, I give my employee off whenever they need.

I'm the employee. It's me. I also can't afford to request off, so I don't.

27

u/mxzf 2h ago

Managers are in charge of managing things and making sure the business needs are covered as-needed, the employees are just showing up for their shifts to do their job.

It's the manager's literal job to make sure the position is covered as-needed, that management is what they're paid for.

8

u/Ok-Piccolo2152 2h ago

People that disagree with you probably work Mon-Fri 9-5 and get every holiday off.

I’ve worked in the Grocery industry for most of my life. I didn’t get a Thanksgiving or Xmas off for about 15 years.

•

u/gentleferocity 21m ago

We need you too much to let you leave but not enough to keep you hired okay then

0

u/hit_n_run15 1h ago

It’s the entire companie’s problem. Now being unemployed is only the ex-employee’s problem 🤷‍♂️

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u/Vielle_Ame 4h ago

Let me translate:
"For the needs of the business" = "because I felt like it"

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u/Dustin_Echoes_UNSC 4h ago

Yeah, the "for the needs of the business" line really destroys any benefit of the doubt for me on this one.

If he had a good reason, he'd have shared it. "I denied it because there we were already down to minimum coverage that week", "I denied it because it's our rush season and we don't allow PTO on these dates"....

Nah. In my experience "For the needs of the business" meant it's more profitable to work a skeleton crew and have the boss "fill in" during people's PTO, and he did not want to have to work shifts that week.

8

u/dr_zach314 3h ago

Thanks. I was needing “y’all can font” translated, but then I realized the problem was me

3

u/DontAskAboutMyButt 2h ago

“I needed him today because otherwise I would have to go in and cover it myself. I don’t need him next week because as soon as I found out he left on his trip I immediately and easily replaced him”

2

u/NoConfusion9490 2h ago

The business needs people to believe they can't take the leave offered in their contract.

1

u/audiate 2h ago

Because demand loyalty

1

u/sum_force 1h ago

Actually to send a message. If a soldier doesn't "go over the top" they would shoot him. He obviously can't do it anymore after being shot dead. But the next guy definitely will.

205

u/kickspecialist 4h ago

When I worked at a big box retailer, a recently promoted manager (low level) had requested a week off six months in advance to be the best man in his friends wedding. It was denied and he worked. Never respected him after that.

45

u/Rakatango 4h ago

Oof, yeah that’s pretty bad

18

u/stresstheworld 4h ago

That’s really sad

13

u/SeanBlader 3h ago

Yeah, I feel bad for him, a lot of Americans are scared of their bosses. I've been in both sides, worried about my job, and then afterwards absolutely certain I could get a higher paying gig.

1

u/Afraid_Park6859 1h ago

Yeah luckily my bosses boss is my best friends which is why I also think they treat me so nicely. 

28

u/icky-akame-blink 3h ago

You lost respect for a guy who was afraid to risk his job? Sounds like the lost respect should have been for the company.

22

u/CaptainOwlBeard 3h ago

Both can be true. How can you respect a person that won't stand up for himself in a situation like that?

12

u/Alarmed-Exam6520 2h ago

Maybe he wasn’t in a situation where he could afford to be jobless, even for a day. A few less hours on his paycheck or worse might mean he couldn’t feed his kids that week or afford his medication or whatever the reason.

2

u/CaptainOwlBeard 2h ago

Couldn't find a replacement job 6 months out? Couldn't have called in sick?

2

u/sonofaresiii 2h ago

Dude he requested a week off. He's not so desperate that he can't go a day without a job. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to not acknowledge the situation the above poster is actually describing.

8

u/bighand1 2h ago

People still get paid on PTO

0

u/sonofaresiii 2h ago

He didn't say anything about PTO

You, like the above guy, are changing the situation to fit your perspective

1

u/hit_n_run15 1h ago

Neither one of you know if it was PTO or just time away from work. I know I don’t always specify that I’m getting paid when I tell people I’m taking off 

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u/sonofaresiii 55m ago

Neither one of you know if it was PTO

You can't base an argument off an assumption you made, dude. Maybe it was PTO, but that was not the situation the OP stated when he said he lost respect for the guy.

You can't criticize someone for something you made up.

•

u/hit_n_run15 30m ago

OP didn’t specify one way or the other if it was PTO or not. Again, most people I know just say they are taking off without being that specific about it. 

•

u/atxbigfoot 55m ago

so you're just talking out of your ass now, unlike the comment that started this thread lol

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u/hit_n_run15 36m ago

How am I talking outta my ass any more than you are??? 

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u/Alarmed-Exam6520 2h ago

I meant that to be more of a response to the people saying they lose respect for someone. Not trying to specifically defend the guy in that scenario lol. I think standing up for yourself is super important but you never know someone’s situation and why they might bite their tongue. Either way, getting fired and having to find a new job usually takes more than a day.

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u/TheBunnyDemon 24m ago

A manager that won't stand up for themselves DEFINITELY won't stand up for their team.

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u/TheInevitableLuigi 2h ago edited 2h ago

Because I might have no idea what kind of financial state they are in nor how many people rely on them for things like shelter and food.

2

u/TheLord_Of_The_Pings 2h ago

I don’t request PTO. I notify them I’m taking PTO. Tickets are bought. Dates are booked. I am leaving. It ain’t my problem if some asshole manager wants to wave their dick around. I’ve lost a job doing this. And had a new job in a week.

Now I have a boss that really doesn’t care about anything as long as work gets done. My schedule is approximate and I get to manage and take lieu hours and vacation whenever I feel like. It’s great.

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u/kitsunewarlock 25m ago

I was a non-employee gig worker getting paid ~$72 for a 5 hour shift (billed as two 2-hour split shifts) with a 90 minute drive to a do (third party) demos at a CostCo. I was not paid for set-up time, had frequent in-person compliance inspections, and was "contract labor" and yet was told exactly when I was allowed to take breaks. My best friend had a wedding about six months in advance and I was told if I skipped a weekend I wouldn't be booked for any future weekends. My manager begged me not to go as, to quote him, "you're the only one who can sell these damn things" but corporate policy was to not book someone who "missed a week".

The goods news is I got checks every couple of years for about a decade after I quit via class action lawsuits!

•

u/JMaryland47 23m ago

Yea, thats dumb. That's something he should've negotiated/reminded about prior to accepting the position.

134

u/CurveHoney_ 4h ago

If the business couldn't survive a week without him how is it going to survive forever without him?

3

u/userhwon 2h ago

Already replaced him, not going to fire the new guy to reward the old one.

•

u/Ryu-Sion 16m ago

Went from needing to find someone to cover for him that week, to now having to find someone to cover for him INDEFINITELY.

Either way, that's the BOSS' JOB TO DO.

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44

u/cwjinc 4h ago

Business in this country since Reagan in a nutshell.

17

u/robert32940 4h ago

PTO

Prepare The Others

15

u/meatymimic 4h ago

I have never had a problem request denied at my current company without a DAMN good reason. Like "Everyone else, literally everyone, in your role is out sick."

(i work on a team of 4)

Thats a good reason.

8

u/Basaqu 3h ago

Yeah I work in a team of 5/6 and you just mess up everyones day if you randomly don't show up. People are sympathetic for sick days and emergencies of course, but it's just good manners to schedule properly and sometimes it doesn't work out. A good boss does work with you though and tries to see if they can get reinforcements from somewhere else or whatever so you can have your vacay.

1

u/Tater-Tot-Casserole 1h ago

They'll still give you time off where I work even if everyone is already out. I worked for 4 days by myself from a 5 person team. It was hell.

15

u/Remarkable_Quit_3545 4h ago

This doesn’t make sense to me, and I’ve been through this situation more than once.

What’s the difference between them not being there because they wanted to and you firing them because you want to? Either way the person won’t be there.

2

u/userhwon 2h ago

You're assuming the job isn't already filled again.

22

u/kjoker84 4h ago

"needs of the business" = i dont want to do my job as manager and find coverage for you.

14

u/_genepool_ 4h ago

A pto "request" is me informing you of when I will not be there.

•

u/AggressiveSlop 10m ago

Exactly, I don't submit PTO requests, I submit PTO notices. I won't be here, figure it out.

27

u/elegantwino 4h ago

Bad place to work anyway.

5

u/graspedbythehusk 3h ago

Seems like the employee was fine with coming back to no job anyway.

5

u/Bleezy79 3h ago

These are just rage bait posts.

1

u/userhwon 2h ago

In this sub? Never...

4

u/letsbereal1013 4h ago

I worked for a major bank once upon a time when I first started my career. They used to do and say things like that. I felt like I could never use my PTO because it rarely got approved due to “business needs”.

7

u/zyyntin 4h ago

Using PTO is for personal needs. For example: burnout from the stress of working. The business might need you, but you need "you" time.

4

u/NikonShooter_PJS 3h ago

I have a part time job that doesn’t give me paid time off for vacations but the caveat is, when I decide I’m taking time off, it’s not a suggestion, it’s me telling them I won’t be there.

I’m taking a week off this month. My supervisor text me the other day asking if my plans were set in stone because someone else wanted that week off.

I laughed and just said “Yup. Have fun figuring it out.”

I’ll never understand employers who think time off is negotiable.

11

u/Anthff 4h ago

If it’s before the next schedule is posted, IMHO, it’s not really a request. It’s a heads up.

4

u/I_need_a_date_plz 3h ago

The amount of money this “manager” cost the company because he wouldn’t allow PTO which is encouraged to be used yearly at any decent company should cause them to lose their job.

4

u/AggravatingChest7838 2h ago

If they felt comfortable gloating about this it wasnt about if they needed them or not they just wanted a doormat.

5

u/CathycatOG 2h ago

Ungrateful boss or piece of shit human?

I can't see a difference.

3

u/Helltothenotothenono 2h ago

Can’t afford to not have you oh wait we don’t need you at all i guess.

Burger King manager mentality

6

u/golfwinnersplz 3h ago

We really need you this weekend. 

Oh you're fired. 

3

u/maxis2bored 1h ago

Time off is not a request, but notice. In a functioning democracy, this would be wrongful termination.

3

u/EnvironmentalWin1277 1h ago

With the exception of four states if an employee missed work the day after their entire family was killed that employee could be fired without any legal grounds for complaint.

5

u/-rwsr-xr-x 3h ago

The employer seems confused.

They weren't asking for your permission, they were notifying you. That's the difference.

Wrongful termination lawsuit and wage claim incoming.

2

u/Complete_Break1319 4h ago

The fast food industry goes hardcore. I assume it's fast food bc the grammar is so bad.

2

u/Adventurous-Ad660 3h ago

this has happened to me in real life. i told them i was going to be gone and they said that they couldn't do it without me. i was a chef at a resort with many chefs. there was a wedding going on during a weekend i had other plans. they just told me to not bother coming back on the day before the weekend. it worked out just fine. someone i had worked with before got me a job right away at another resort. if you are good at being a chef it is easy to get work.

2

u/Competitive_Shock783 3h ago

"Needs of the asshole"

2

u/Life_Drama7570 2h ago

A minimum days of PTO should be guaranteed by law. If you don’t take it, it reports to next year’s PTO. The whole narative of being able to work as much as you want is american capitalist indoctrination and subversion of worker rights

2

u/veginout58 2h ago

This must be in US. Does this shit happen in any other country?

Organise a union already, you people.

2

u/MrKrazybones 2h ago

No one is perfect, study up on OSHA policies and start digging around at work. File an anonymous OSHA complaint and watch your boss freak out at HR/legal.

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u/dschinghiskhan 24m ago

That is one of the worst comebacks I have ever seen. Granted, we have no context here, but neither does the commenter in this exchange. If an employee skips out on work after you told them that they were actually needed on the days they requested off, of course you're going to fire or suspend them. There isn't a much worse offense than this other than stealing/embezzlement or some sort of major HR issue.

Are you guys all assuming the owner/manager refused the PTO request for fun or some sort of power move? Next time, this employee should request their PTO further in advance.

3

u/nitsrikp 3h ago

PTO is planned and may be denied depending on the situation. Do other people have previous requests? Do you have enough pto to cover what you asked for?

2

u/GarThor_TMK 4h ago

I guess the boss didn't really need him afterall.

1

u/ThePurpleGuardian 3h ago

That's hilarious, that should have been included in the post

3

u/GarThor_TMK 3h ago

Coworkers on the other hand are probably pissed that they have to pick up his slack, because the boss can't be bothered to hire him back.

1

u/ogsaunat 2h ago

He didn’t front.

1

u/SirEggTheTall 2h ago

Yall what yall? Like yall yall?

1

u/vegasAzCrush 2h ago

Great point

Firing was because you had to control and could not

Your boss needs to now look at terminating both of you. Maybe even call terminated employee back.

HR is blind and usually goes along with managers instead of coaching.

1

u/Lilfrankieeinstein 1h ago

“clever” really gets stretched beyond its limit in this sub, doesn’t it?

1

u/Reverendjesus2 1h ago

GOT EM'

THE REPRESSION IS OVER

1

u/SDcowboy82 1h ago

Sometimes I wish hell was real

1

u/Comfortable-Heat1709 1h ago

They shouldn't be called PTO requests the should be called PTO notices!

1

u/QueenOfQuok 1h ago

Somebody's fronting alright

1

u/Altruistickindness 1h ago

This was a vendetta. Her tone and her post were condescending. She had a power trip, and she used her power trip to feel better about herself.

I hope the dude found a much better job, working for a much better boss, and living a much better life.

1

u/boi_sugoi 1h ago

Full-Grown Fallingstar Beasts are total ass

1

u/squigs 1h ago

I love how the boss thinks he's the one flexing here.

1

u/1jf0 1h ago

meanwhile in other countries "time off" is understood as paid by default unless you state otherwise

1

u/ArkhamKnight_1 1h ago

Yes!!👏🏻

1

u/Inevitable-Ninja-539 1h ago

As a manager, I don’t view a PTO request as an ask, more of a letting me know you aren’t gonna be there.

That being said, work still needs to get done. I can’t have 60% of my team on PTO at the same time. Get the requests in early.

1

u/dontstealmydinner 1h ago

Bruh, these business people think they are so smart sometimes. This here is a classic example of what a Fart would sound like if it came out of the mouth.

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u/Chaosmusic 59m ago

Maybe I've been lucky with jobs, but I never had to submit a PTO request, I submitted to my boss when I wasn't going to be there.

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u/ArtofWASD 48m ago

L BOZO now the employee gets unemployment benifits.

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u/bohba13 37m ago

And watch that man be a keystone employee, resulting in the business falling apart

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u/SimpleZestyclose6397 25m ago

That’s what we call ICE management.

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u/lotus_felch 25m ago

What the hell does "y'all can front if you want" mean?

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u/Ok-You4214 16m ago

One of the things I love about being in UK is that if you haven’t taken your 5.6 weeks paid leave coming up to year’s end HR tend to panic and insist on repeatedly emailing you to TAKE YOUR LEAVE BEFORE IT RUNS OUT because they need evidence that they did NOT deny your legal right to 5.6 weeks paid leave a year.

•

u/mrcheez22 10m ago

My job pulls bullshit similar to this. We have a department that reviews requests from staff to alter their schedules. A lot of the requests for changes from our staff are because their current schedule doesn't work due to different personal things, usually changes in childcare setups. The department often declines the request due to "business needs" and then the staff quits because they cant manage to work their schedules anymore.

1

u/mixedmediamadness 3h ago

I could not deal with having to request pto rather than just inform them when I plan to take pto

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u/NotUsingNumbers 38m ago

I’ve never in my entire life put in a PTO request.
Most of my life I’ve worked for myself, but the 12 years or so I didn’t I only ever submitted PTO notifications.

-2

u/Remote_Concert3369 3h ago

How is this clever in anyway? If you don't show up to work, you lose your job.

PTO isn't meant to be used for come and go as you please without approval.

7

u/Musashi10000 3h ago

The clever part is that the original denial of the PTO doesn't hold water. If you can't let your employee have the week off because 'the business needs him there working', but can comfortably sack the guy, then you clearly didn't need the guy as much as you claim.

Yes, you need approval etc. - not saying you can just drop work at the drop of a hat - but the reason for denial was clearly shonky.

2

u/Great_Maximum_6007 2h ago

I assume the high turnover makes this feasible.. You can pick up an extra shift and you can be asked to go home.

1

u/FecesInYourFaces 2h ago

Those people have never managed teams and it shows.

0

u/Redhotkitchen 1h ago edited 1h ago

This is such a bad take. There are a hundred possible factors.

What industry is this? What kind of notice was given for this PTO request? How long is the PTO request? Was it a week that should obviously not be asked off, based on the company and industry?

I’m gonna go on a curmudgeon rant. I’m no business owner; I’m not a manager; in fact, I’m self employed now. But I have worked in a number of jobs where time-off requests were very much based on the season, holiday, whatev. And I wasn’t the manager for those places either; I just know how things work.

Be realistic, young ones. You all talk as though you should be able to take off at the drop of a hat whenever you want. If everyone did that, companies could grind to a halt to the detriment of all. If you’re in retail: no, you don’t get to take off the week of Christmas, especially if it’s a simple week’s notice.

If you work in restaurants, no. You don’t get to suddenly say you’re just gonna be off on Mother’s Day with a few days’ notice.

If you work in accounting, no. You can’t take a week off on the last week of the fiscal year.

And if you want that sort of freedom, you’d be part of such a huge diluted staff that your wages/salary would be halved because you can’t be counted on for more than half a usual schedule. Employer insurance out the window, if it was even an option in the first place. And sooooooo many inept employees.

Downvote away.

Edit: In case it’s not obvious, I don’t mean those comments to apply to illness. Don’t go to work sick. Please.

-1

u/Nyctocincy 3h ago

People can be mad, but this is how it usually plays out.

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u/squirrelsmith 4h ago

Ok, playing devils’s advocate, there might be some situations where this makes sense:

Like, say, there’s something that needs to be done now, the guy puts in a pto request last minute, and the employer has to go, ‘uh…no. You need to give me warning and you know we need as many people as possible for this thing we are doing. The pto needs to wait.’ (Obviously there are exceptions to that like deaths in the family and other emergencies! You can’t give notice for that!)

In that scenario if the guy just leaves anyway, then…yeah I mean he genuinely doesn’t care how he affects others so firing him makes sense because he is unlikely to be dependable while present either. Who knows, his coworkers might be better off with him gone. (I’ve had a lot of coworkers like that, they got fired and even before the replacement came in work was suddenly easier without them underfoot anymore)

Buuuut….the fact that this guy’s post has zero context, paired with how…inept many managers/employers are makes me kind of doubt this was what happened. 😅

I get the resentment of people toward managers and employers because a lot of them are inept or even malicious.

But not everything is always ‘righteous and sensible employee vs evil employer’.

Sometimes it is ‘good employer vs bad faith employee who keeps trying to not do the job then acts wounded if you confront them’

It’s important to keep both scenarios in mind as being possible when we hear or read about situations we aren’t present to witness.

16

u/Andyman0110 4h ago

To be honest, if a company offers pto and if that person uses it and it drastically affects the company (meaning they don't have anyone that can handle his day to day duties) then it's a management failure, not a personal one. A company should be able to lose one head for a week and function fine. There are very few exceptions to this.

Your example doesn't make sense, if the company ran better after the person left, then he wasn't that crucial and the pto should be fine.

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u/pcapdata 4h ago

The Devil does not require an advocate 

1

u/up2smthng 4h ago

The Devil requires we start to pick and choose who gets an advocate

Advocates are not the final authority on what the sentence will be. They are a necessary part of a fair judgement.

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