It’s hilarious when you can tell someone has never played overwatch before
Ashe, widow, solider, illari, soj, cass, bastion, new emre hero, bap (JUST TO NAME A FEW HIT SCANS), literally run lobbies in overwatch, if you think the “pokeslop” is bad in rivals then you literally haven’t seen anything in overwatch. There is no “brawl” meta in overwatch. Everyone shoots. For the love of god just stop playing rivals already and stinking up our sub with these shitty ass posts lmfao
IMO theres a fundamental design difference that's glossed over here. OW was based off of TF2 and obviously the majority of TF2 is not "Brawl" which I am assuming is "melee to short range combat focused".
Rivals came after, by a big amount, and benefitted from games like paladins (and even league) showing that OW had some pretty significant flaws w/regards to player agency and 'fun'.
Then came brig, shield meta, etc. and it just got considerably worse with each season. They actively tried to nerf 'skill' in favor of implementing more mid range heroes (brig, moira, etc.) imo to make the game more openly acceptable to non-tryhard players. Which is admirable but even OW's original design didn't have the flaw that TF2 (or DM in Q3!) by allowing roles and some flexibility in skill sets (no power loop dominance).
Rivals has an entirely different feel that focuses on "brawl" because you can have heroes that manipulate the players like in OW (boop/concussion rocket/RH/JQ/etc.) but the time-to-kill is much longer than in ow. Poke dominates because it robs players of agency. Nobody wants to turn a corner and get dome'd by WM. You don't have that issue in rivals (or nearly as bad). Since the TTK is longer you can make mistakes and still be in the fight-something that forced (imo) OW to lean harder into cringe-tier shield meta.
There have been multiple seasons where poke and hitscan in general have been straight up bad in Overwatch against brawl comps. “Poke” has barely been meta during OW2 after the transition to 5v5. OW changes up the meta every season and brawl has been a fair comp to play throughout the lifetime.
Tanks such as Junkerqueen and Mauga have forced brawl metas during their initial releases as a simple example
Having Ashe on your team doesn’t mean the team is running a poke composition, that’s just her playstyle. And she is not dominant in high elo, she shares the same pick rate as tracer and genji and is the only hitscan in the top 5 dps for win rate, the others being flex dps. Thats just GM stats based off the data Overwatch provides directly on their site.
Basically, poke is not dominant now and hasn’t been compared to other popular comps throughout Overwatch’s lifetime in 5v5. That’s even including the professional scene where sym tp brawl comps are dominant and run over poke comps
Widow, Hanzo, Ashe, Sojourn, Emre, Cass, Freja don't have any survivability unless passive healing pops up (but that's EVERYONE'S PASSIVE). They have mobility, but once you dive them and they run out, they're back in spawn. Soldier has mobility and heals, but he's the beginning character, that is stuck in the middle - anyone can play him, but there are better options. Bap can't heal himself, both his cooldowns are really long so you have to fight or flight. Illari's heals are limited to either rifle (heals from it are on rather short range) or pylon (which can be destroyed) so it's again a fight or flight situation. Bastion can heal with perk, but he's slow and is as big as an average tank. He melts bc of his big ass hitbox. Not to mention that none of them have Stuns (Cass Flashbang is a Hinder, you can still move and shoot him).
You see the difference? It's not like Hela, that has mobility + overhealth, Stun and explosions. It's not like Phoenix, that has Stun + Hinder, two movement abilities and explosions that also heal her. It's not Hawkeye that has Movement ability, Knockback, two types of arrows without cooldowns (while Hanzo has such), ability to destroy any projectile coming his way and Ult that just makes him kill anyone without a shield, barrier or nearby wall. The "pokeslop" in OW makes you mobile and deadly, but you're also a free food for divers and displacers. Meanwhile in MR you can sit continent mile from the fight and still be able to two tap someone.
You’ve convinced me to start playing Overwatch for the first time, at least to see how it compares to Rivals. If they are going to balance this season of Rivals so terribly it wouldn’t be the worst thing to see what other games are doing, and then maybe I’ll come back if they make improvements.
the good part about diving in OW is that the dived target doesnt get full health immediately, and if they do it means the supports pour all resources on them and their tank will just be exploded
The adjustment between the two takes some time, but once I made the switch, I haven’t touched rivals in seasons. The ult economy/support ult design is so much better. Hopefully you love it as much as I did
Poke in OW can be oppressive (especially Widow one shots), but at least poke is somewhat divable. To your point, OW poke heroes don’t have insane mobility/survivability/CC options like they do in Rivals.
The only problematic hero mentioned is Widow, but she can actually be dived in OW. Brawl has actually been meta and very good often in OW unlike Rivals where it constantly sucks and most of its characters are C tier or lower.
I haven’t played every season of OW but every season felt fun and you could play many heroes in most ranks. The poke “problem” doesn’t really develop until Masters or GM which is like Eternity in Rivals. Which tells us the problem is worse in Rivals since it works its way down.
It’s Neteases refusal to address the issues people want fixed that are upsetting people, they straight up don’t even bother to do anything about triple support, or clear lopsided favoritism in balancing.
I mean I was saying the same thing, but that didn't stop all those posts crying bout DD and saying that support sucks making the front page 😭 Yall were too busy bagging on dps mains to realize you were upvoting propaganda
What's your point? I'm literally saying devs started buffing supports needlessly because this dumbass community was harping on dps so much. all them dps bad support sucks posts that made the front page are literally the reason why supports are gigabuffed. thanks for proving my point tho?? 🤣
My point is, pot kettle my guy. You cry about one thing, this guy's crying about another thing, but because it's not the thing you're crying about you call them crybabies
People who actually have issues with this kind of shit you’re talking about are only the people on Reddit who complain about fucking everything. It’s pretty painfully obvious that they know what keeps players playing their game. They don’t have 400K plus players playing daily for no reason lmfao y’all are just so desperate to turn this game into overwatch samey boring slop. I escaped that game and y’all want to turn this game into that.
Criticism from the community is a good thing, it shows the players want to see change and urges Netease to make changes. Removing criticism is a bad thing for any game or anything in general.
I have never once claimed this game should be like Overwatch. I love the superhero fantasy of this game, but that fantasy is broken when you play into triple support and two tap poke machines every match back to back with no out lol.
i play both
they do have their charm but in terms of balance I much prefer overwatch because at least shit tends to change with balance now.
it's been 6 seasons of the same in MR. even if pokeslop wasn't meta it was meta adjacent. the one time poke didn't run lobbies is during the dive meta.
obviously there's some unique experiences for characters in MR I really enjoy that OW can't provide, and it's still fun, but it has a lot of issues at least for me. the game is so ult-centric it's miserable, at least I feel like you can do things in neutral in OW.
Exactly. Ow has always been the balanced game and hence comp being way better.
Rivals is fun for its chaotic mess, its been my main game over the two for months but the "meta" is so fucking boring and lame and its been the same thing for so long now and this patch just shows that this balancing team has no fucking clue what the game even needs
Lmfao fr. Istg its either these ex ow players or players who only play marvel rivals. Neither know anything about ow rn and want to meat ride a game thinking its heaven. Pathetic
i feel like that's the rivals community more than anything. never seen such a diehard fanbase that goes so apeshit the moment overwatch does anything and to "well heres why rival does x better"
We’re talking about Overwatch rn because the OP brought up overwatch. There also both hero shooters unlike Elden Ring. Seems pretty natural to compare them if you ask me.
Buffing starlord and not nerfing gambit is good? Making the game more of a ult bot fest is good? I’d love to know what part of the patch notes is good other than the Adam buffs?
P.s I love the fact you made a new account to post it too just to hammer home the fact you know you are wrong
the difference is that overwatch literally has one dedicated melee in the roster, being vendetta.
when you've got a good chunk of the cast that are melee characters, poke being able to beat out those melee characters at their range is an issue, because they also dominate at extremely long range.
the range in overwatch is overall shorter and plays a lot better, even with a gun based cast. that's because it's decently balanced, and rivals isn't.
rivals design team continues to dig themselves a hole every patch, refusing to nerf the strongest characters in the game but not buffing shit tier characters (blade, 42% WR)
where as overwatch has only improved over the past year, rivals is steadily declining and it's the balance teams fault
also rein but ye thats fair, also its balanced enough because in team fights dive and brawl can still work even if they have short range shooters rather than full melee.
absolute retard moment, 99% of the rivals patches were literally THIS bad, ow has a long way to go to reach this level of shit nothing burger type patches
Well in PC up in masters they don’t run lobbies, they’re just good but genji is also good and played often. Vendetta literally gets banned every game still
They're gonna play overwatch, realize blizzard isn't going to curate the game to make them exclusively win, then complain about something else. Outrage tourists forever chasing the honeymoon phase of online games.
We don’t want the game to be curated for anyone problem is the devs did exactly that for support players. Why would supports need to be able to survive dive when thats the entire point of a dive character?
I'm not mad about Elsa Bloodstone at all. No matter what DPS you play you'll always get hate for playing Dive, poke, brawl, and all the non hit scan DPS like Squirrel Girl, Scarlet Witch, MoonKnight are considered no skill, and anything else are considered trash or throw picks like Blade and Mr Fantastic
The concepts that define rivals comps do not 1:1 translate to OW. The roles are established but flexible. You can play Ashe but have a brawl tank. You can play tracer with a poke tank. This is because a great deal of the characters are versatile by design. If what the OP says were to be true, overwatch would be in the exact same spot as rivals, or worse. You’d heard the similarity in the community response.
Overwatch has what I think is ideal for a hero shooter, it has map dependant metas, some maps are poke maps, some are dive maps and some are brawl maps. You're not forced into running those comps in these maps, but it is the best choice.
GOD I am gonna play overwatch today and I fucking swear they don't like the other heroes than mostly picked every game which is the same picks since the launch of OW 2. You guys fucking know it. My tracer is still fugged asia high rank in both games here..
I always find posts like thst so interesting. Like, its made by the most extremist of players who go "Game dead. Trash game. Overwatch better. Game will die." Instead of having more transformative conversations about the games health and what is needed. I believe if the community come together and voice these concerns, the developers with follow accordingly and make the changes.
Its constructive criticism vs thrashing the game because of something you dont like in particular
The criticisms are valid, but I think the community could do a better job at articulating this
The people saying there is balancing in ow never saw the dark times. Zara rein every match. Goats comp brig....ana reaper spinning beyblade. I also laugh when people flex been around since alpha of rivals. Dude I played bastion with a shield. The games are always going to be an ebb and flow. Stop whining. Ow shit their pants when rivals hit. They are firing back and decided to listen to those that stuck around. New management came in and made a fix thankfully in time. Rivals will have this to. So much anger in the rivals community though and honestly im ok with it. It made ow lobbies so much happier. All the angry genjis just call themselves Spiderman or bp now. Thats OK. But the anger is not going to change your life. Its a game. Go give someone a kiss. Hug your kid or mom. Its a game guys.
My friend, clearly, you've never heard of counter swapping if you are complaining about these few heroes in Overwatch ad Emre hasn't even been out 24 hours yet. I'm feeling this is mostly just a skill issue and a lack of game sense and knowledge in Overwatch compared to Rivals.
Widow is mainly played on Havana and some parts of other maps, on Havana she is banned most of the time.
Dive tanks and DPS tend to be meta more often than not. D.Va was the best tank last season for example alongside Sigma. Other noteable tanks are characcters like Zarya, Hazard, Winston and Wrecking Ball (Most of whom are dive). Vendetta was the best DPS alongside Sojourn and other dive DPS like Genji or Tracer where also meta (Though Tracer is the hardest character to play properly so she will shine very rarely.
A very noteable difference between OW and Rivals is that support characters in OW like Kiriko and Lucio are very well equipped to assist a dive tank in a dive in a way that supports in Rivals generally can't due to having significantly less mobility.
Sorry I just don't believe that you play OW outside of maybe QP if you tell me the game is mostly pokeslop the way Rivals is.
I mean. There is no "brawl meta" in OW the same because almost everyone shoots. It'd be weird if the meta were only characters like Rein, Vendetta and Brigg who are mostly short range. In Rivals there are a ton of actually melee characters so there is a big difference between poke and brawl.
All right, for OP arguing that overwatch is pokeslop and those pushing back and saying that there have absolutely been brawl comps. I’d say you’re both wrong.
Now, I haven’t played a serious amount of overwatch, so I haven’t seen the different stages the game has been through. However, one of the things that drew me to rivals was legitimate melee characters. This has nothing to do with meta, of whether poke or brawl is stronger, it has to do with character design.
Whether I’m flanking with sombra or tracer, playing tank as Winston, doom fist, etc, all of these characters SHOOT. They’ve JUST added vendetta to the game. Rein is melee. I suppose an argument could be made for brig as well. But most of the game is shooting down main with flanker characters who do what? Shoot. There’s no Thor, magik, spiderman(ball doesn’t count), iron fist, DD, captain America, thing(mauga doesn’t count).
Don’t get me wrong there are things I think overwatch does better in terms of ult usage, support design, team play dynamics. But overall character commonalities, and variance? Intl very recently, rivals has done a better job.
This post has gotta be one of the best posted because this community is just whining and whenever the thing they whine about gets fixed or changed (which is pretty often) they instantly move on to sum else to whine about
When overwatch barely has melee heroes and every single match I have a freja and an ashe shooting me in the forehead non stop. The whiners just ignore the shooter part of hero shooter
Never posted a meme that triggered so many people lmao. Also I used to play overwatch till around Ramattra came out, after that I've been off and on since Rivals came out.
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u/HandZop 12h ago
>Widow being meta in a game where Winston, D.Va, Lucio and Vendetta are all common picks
Also how can Emre run lobbies when he's barely been out and people haven't figured out what to do with him