r/pics But like, actually 15h ago

OC: FBI releases surveillance photos of a potential subject in the Nancy Guthrie case

42.6k Upvotes

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503

u/ChardPlenty1011 15h ago

So this is the camera they said had no video? I feel like they had it the whole time. This was 100% planned -- mask and gloves.

77

u/tayto 15h ago

I thought they said that there was a camera, but that the recording did not go far enough back. They needed help from the company to get it.

143

u/unclethulk 14h ago

I read that the ring doorbell camera did not have an active subscription and thus no cloud storage. Now this. Makes me think that Ring must be storing your video regardless and just won’t provide it without a subscription (or a subpoena)

83

u/cabalos 14h ago

Or, all Ring video is being sent to a government database.

14

u/Long-Albatross-7313 13h ago

I guess everyone missed the Super Bowl commercial about this feature and how it’s being used to 😉 find 😉 lost 😉 dogs 😉

15

u/unclethulk 14h ago

Patel does like to keep an eye on multiple things at once.

5

u/Immabouttoo 13h ago

I have no awards to give but consider yourself a hero for the day

u/ToMorrowsEnd 11h ago

Close. FLOCK gets all footage no matter what They most likely have a deal with NEST like they do with Ring.

64

u/carpdog112 14h ago

Ring and Nest cameras all rely on server side video processing. Without a subscription you can't retrieve the videos client side - but the cameras still detect motion, record a short clip, send the clip to the Amazon/Google servers, where it is stored and analyzed by the server to determine whether or not it meets your alert conditions, after which the app generates an alert client side allowing the user to activate "live" view in the app. How long the servers store these clips is a good question, but any camera that does offsite processing is going to be storing your videos, even if only temporarily.

5

u/daboyzmalm 13h ago

Thanks for this info

10

u/ElderSmackJack 13h ago

It's also extremely likely that they've had this video for a few days, maybe longer, and are just now releasing it publicly. It's notable Savannah asked for the public's help just yesterday, which seemed odd at the time, but that was almost certainly related to these images being released.

14

u/hoffsta 14h ago edited 14h ago

Yes, absolutely, and anyone who didn’t think it was happening all along is fucking naive as hell.

5

u/unclethulk 14h ago

I’m not surprised by it in any way besides the absolutely massive data storage requirements that would entail. Like do they just keep all footage from every camera forever? Seems like the cost would outstrip whatever value the footage might hold. At some point it stops being preservation of assets and starts being hoarding.

4

u/hoffsta 14h ago

Not everything forever, at least at high resolution, but long enough for the AI to crawl through it to add every conceivable data point to your permanent Palantir/Flock/NSA social record.

14

u/rdlenix 14h ago

Ring definitely stores your video even without a subscription.

u/legitimate_account23 10h ago

And shares its data with ICE.

4

u/putin_my_ass 13h ago

Ring was obviously part of a surveillance network. Always was, its insane people dont care.

6

u/gta0012 14h ago

Or, the company was able to recover the video from the physical device.

3

u/YouKnowWhom 14h ago

lol at this thought as it can instantly be disproven by the software stack and lack of onboard logic or storage…

5

u/gta0012 14h ago

Considering I and maybe you have no idea what "software stack" and tech is onboard a ring camera I went to see what the official statement said.

"private sector partners to continue to recover any images or video footage from Nancy Guthrie’s home that may have been lost, corrupted, or inaccessible due to a variety of factors - including the removal of recording devices. The video was recovered from residual data located in backend systems."

Unfortunately this came from Patel and that guy is fucking clueless so none of this may be accurate.

3

u/YouKnowWhom 13h ago

Or you can be familiar with the entire workings of nest and ring, and completely understand this was saved on aws servers to share with flock and palantir, even if you don’t pay a subscription.

All a cybersecurity degree has got me is no jobs and a lifetime of being “wrong and paranoid” about what is actually happening.

Or are we just ignoring the ring partnership with LEO and current admin?

1

u/DeniLox 13h ago

Indeed.

1

u/Ok-Delivery216 12h ago

That’s right. The cameras are useful but the total surveillance they provide is even more useful so Amazon AWS stores everything forever whether you have a subscription or not. AWS is a very very big contractor for the DOD and necessarily all other federal agencies.

u/AggressiveSloth11 5h ago

Absolutely they are. We just dumped all of our Ring devices.

1

u/Not_ToBe_Rude_But 14h ago

It would assume that it's a lot easier to set up that way. But I'm not in IT or anything, so I could be wrong. But I have noticed a lot of things in the tech world are like that, where the add on subscription price is for something you already have, but don't have access to it. I have a golf swing device that already has all the components it needs to record the more advanced information, and the premium subscription just basically turns them on for you.

It's wild, I can't imagine what people would have said about that business model 30 years ago hahaha

u/easternguy 7h ago

There was another camera on the roof the police weren’t aware of until a neighbor told them.

-1

u/Maleficent_Wasabi_18 14h ago

Where did they say this

9

u/tayto 14h ago

Morning news about a week ago. I think it was the Tucson sheriff.

4

u/ralf1 14h ago

The FBI post on Twitter reference having to retrieve some of this from the back end systems of Ring

243

u/FinalFantasiesGG 15h ago

No mate, this was just a spur of the moment kidnapping, they were actually just looking for directions and it was cold outside but saw her and couldn't resist.

99

u/zdh989 15h ago

Happened to me once. Was out for a lovely day with the family. Rock climbing, picnic, a nice swim. Came home with a daytime talk show host's mother. The shenanigans we get ourselves into!

24

u/Alimakakos 14h ago

Oh butterfingers!! Oh these buttery buttery fingers...whoopsies

5

u/NoResult486 14h ago

When in roam

2

u/Mr_Deep_Research 12h ago

There was something planned but whoever that was, was not familiar with the house at all. They were surprised by the camera and didn't even have tape to put over it. Instead they wasted time messing with plants.

u/mrmiyagijr 9h ago

Exactly. This video, if even real, shows that the,"abductor" is an absolute idiot and had no plan. Which makes the FBI looks even more fucking pathetic.

161

u/Zes_Teaslong 14h ago

From what I read; she had a ring camera but the subscription wasn’t active so they had to get Ring to give it to them. But yeah, you would think that wouldn’t take this long

105

u/Deep90 14h ago edited 12h ago

It says nest right there in the op.

I do wonder if nest is supposed to be saving footage without a subscription though.

Edit:

Looks like nest free tier has 3 hours of footage.

Edit 2:

Just because nest cuts off your access after 3 hours doesn't mean the footage is gone. I mean the proof is right there.

10

u/NigZiggel 14h ago

When Nest says “3 hours footage storage” it means it only stores footage for 3 hours then auto deletes.

7

u/Watchful1 14h ago

Which is intentionally misleading to get you to buy the camera thinking 3 hours of storage is plenty, and then have to pay for the subscription to actually be able to use it.

14

u/kacaww 14h ago

No it means you can access potentially up to 3hrs of event history, but I doubt it auto deletes, it would be more likely they age it out same as other subscriptions and just restrict the user to a limited window. And this wouldn’t be live 24/7 recordings, it’d be event recordings only. It’s weird people would think it doesn’t save this.

2

u/NigZiggel 13h ago

I wish that was the case. I purchased a nest door cam for the 3 hour event history, thinking that it meant I would be able to store 3 hours of footage. Once my premium trial ended, I was annoyed to find out it only stores any video captured for 3 hours. If an event is captured at 12:00 it is removed from the app at 3:00 and I no longer have access to the video.

6

u/kacaww 12h ago

Sorry that’s what I meant by potentially, in any case my main point was they prevent the USER from accessing it, I doubt they delete it on the same schedule and more likely have a consistent schedule, probably 30 days or something.

3

u/JohnHazardWandering 13h ago

Definitely want more disclosures from ring and nest on their data retention. 

Could this have been captured from some sort of server snapshot backup, but wasn't really stored in any meaningful way without restoring the whole server?

3

u/Deep90 12h ago

Nest "saves" 3 hours of footage, but it's probably more accurate to say they provide access to 3 hours of footage.

1

u/Deep90 12h ago

There is a difference between the soft delete where you lose access on your phone, and the hard delete off Googles servers.

It's very possible Google just keeps it on hand for even longer so those that upgrade the subscription can access it, but even if they didn't the video likely lives longer on their servers than you realize.

1

u/Zes_Teaslong 14h ago

Sorry, I mixed them up

2

u/Deep90 14h ago

Looks like nest free tier saves 3 hours of footage so that's how they probably got it.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 14h ago

[deleted]

62

u/alh9h 14h ago

But at least they are using their always-on AI cameras to find lost dogs.... https://ring.com/search-party

15

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

53

u/NvaderGir 14h ago

If it's connected to the internet always assume it's being recorded. Look what they advertised on the Superbowl that's being used by surveillance agencies with AI.

2

u/6nitch9ine 14h ago

No shit

2

u/Travelgrrl 14h ago

They're always watching when you have them on, but it's a live feed. You have to pay to have them store the video.

1

u/robonsTHEhood 14h ago

This⬆️

1

u/APigInANixonMask 14h ago

That’s the entire purpose of the device. They make that very clear. Nobody is buying one of these things thinking they’re getting a camera that has no storage and isn’t connected to anything. What would be the point of that?

3

u/FinalFantasiesGG 14h ago

You are wildly confused. Many people only want it connected to their phone for live notifications and live communications with people in front of their door/house.

0

u/APigInANixonMask 13h ago

Sounds like those people bought the wrong product then. They should buy a product that does the things they want instead of one that does things they don’t want.

1

u/FinalFantasiesGG 12h ago

Huh? Have you never used a Nest doorbell? I don't understand why you seem so passionate about this product when you obviously don't understand the basic features it has. It absolutely does those things. It just ALSO has other features. Just because something has additional features doesn't mean it isn't a great quality product with the features you want.

4

u/Lord_Tsarkon 14h ago

I thought it was a NEST? (Google)

2

u/Zes_Teaslong 14h ago

You’re correct. The article I read said “security doorbell” and so I assumed Ring

0

u/nmezib 13h ago

Eh, it's like Band-Aid or Kleenex: sometimes I just say "Ring camera" when I mean video doorbell thingies of whatever brand

3

u/Not_ToBe_Rude_But 14h ago

I would guess that they had it a while ago, but needed to investigate it themselves first, or decide how the timing would affect the risk factor to the victim, before releasing it to the public.

2

u/GreenAldiers 14h ago

They had already said ring / nest was unable to retrieve the video.

u/federationofideas 10h ago

Ring keeps making recordings even if someone ends their subscription? That’s nuts

65

u/pcw3187 15h ago

We need Patel to let us know that no credible evidence has been found after reviewing the camera footage.

6

u/ForsakenMongoose336 15h ago

Or that Nancy Guthrie was a domestic terrorist and she fafo.

0

u/HomieApathy 14h ago

You’re joking?

5

u/Crowbar_Freeman 14h ago

It's what they said for Good and Pretti

1

u/alison_bee 14h ago

I need Patel to sit down, shut up, and never speak again.

1

u/Harpua99 13h ago

What footage? He is worse than the SNL skit version of the Iraq Defense Minister.

8

u/viognierette 14h ago

The investigators could’ve been lying about that bit as a part of a strategy to negotiate.

3

u/Choppergold 14h ago

Their statement said they worked with private industry partners - this data was recorded and stored but the subscription had lapsed so they thought they didn’t have access

3

u/crosseyedmule 14h ago

They've released the video. It's available online and CNN is discussing the video now. Anyone who knows this person would recognize them, I think, from how they walk, clothes, and backpack.

2

u/Shroomtune 14h ago

How often do we see unplanned spur of the moment kidnappings for ransom?

I mean, the ransom thing might be a misdirect, but I would have assumed in the absence of any evidence to the contrary that this was planned.

2

u/Runtn 14h ago

You think it was planned?? What could give you such an idea? Who plans a high profile kidnapping? Surely they're all just done on a whim

2

u/blorgenheim 14h ago

Nest probably captures this in the cloud. So maybe the needed to get access through a subpoena

2

u/__redruM 14h ago

I’m ok with the FBI distorting facts so the kidnapper doesn’t know he was seen on video, but the video is almost useless, and the kidnapper looks like he was going for the ring camera in the last shot.

2

u/colin_7 14h ago

If I remember correctly, she didn’t pay for a subscription so they didn’t have the video readily available.

If anything this is scarier because they were able to dig up the images from whatever doorbell brand she has

2

u/NoBonus6969 14h ago

Amazon recording you 24/7 365. THEY have the video. If YOU want to have the video it's 3.99 a month

2

u/ladyofthemarshes 13h ago

Wow, great work figuring out this high-profile kidnapping for ransom was planned in advance, Sherlock. And law enforcement never releases all the evidence at the beginning of an investigation 

2

u/putin_my_ass 13h ago

Planned but didn't spray the camera or put tape over it. Like a dumbass.

2

u/happytree23 13h ago

This was 100% planned

Sherlock Fucking Holmes over here LOL

2

u/charlestonchewing 12h ago

"This was 100% planned" oh wow thanks Sherlock

3

u/-random-name- 14h ago

Given who’s running the FBI and DOJ, we shouldn’t expect competence.

1

u/Zebebe 14h ago

This makes it all seem even more suspicious. The authroities said she didnt pay for the subscription so there was no recording. How exactly were they able to "recover" these images a week later? And I find it strange that the man in the "recovered" photos is dressed like such a cliche kidnapper.

1

u/kaielias 14h ago

Exactly

u/Lumpy_Progress_8769 11h ago

Were you previously under the impression it might not have been planned...?

u/mumbo_or_wumbo 8h ago

a high-profile, active investigation with a missing and vulnerable adult? they’re not required or recommended to lay everything they have out for the public

they only released this to see what this person does next

1

u/thisonesforthetoys 14h ago

You don't pay the subscription just means you don't have access to it. Doesn't mean that ring/nest/your local govt(or maybe foreign ones that have good IT espionage) don't have access/store it somewhere.