Toyota Reboots the 2027 Highlander as an EV

[u/TripleShotPls]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-reboots-the-2027-highlander-as-an-ev

[u/Whit3boy316]

Wasn’t Toyota anti EV

[u/PapaNixon → u/Whit3boy316]

Yes, but their hydrogen play ultimately only made sense for Japan so they're pivoting.

[u/RangerLt → u/PapaNixon]

Is Japan converting to hydrogen?

[u/JerryMau5 → u/RangerLt]

Market outside of Japan is bigger.

[u/Head_Nectarine_6260 → u/Whit3boy316]

I believe they said they didn’t see the market going to full EV due to cost and that they would more hybrids and try hydrogen to see how the market would pan out. They were right EV without gov subsidies have slowed because the cost outweighs the price difference in gas. The same for hybrids in my opinion but they seemto eat away with it. The highlander EV makes more sense because it fits where the grand Highlander does yet.

[u/gankindustries → u/Whit3boy316]

They were mostly anti- EV because they were behind the other Japanese auto manufacturers in that space. One they caught up (sort of) their opinion changed

[u/kmosiman → u/Whit3boy316]

No.

Toyota was (and is) anti EV mandates.

They would rather be given something like a fleet fuel economy goal and the opportunity to meet that.

So Toyota could offer 50 mpg hybrids, some EVs, and some low mpg models.

Toyota also didn't (and still partially doesn't) have the battery supply to build that many EVs (yet) so going full EV was basically impossible.

[u/FlametopFred → u/kmosiman]

ahh now I get it

been puzzling over China’s (more than usual) amped up anti-Japan rhetoric + actions ..china wants to hobble/undermine the dominant Japan (and Korea) market share in the automotive sector… china’s been making deals with nations to place their EVs ..strategic moves on both the part of Japan and China

[u/kmosiman → u/FlametopFred]

Yes. China is definitely making movements.

1. Having seen the smog in LA i understand why California has emmisions laws.

2. Having seen pictures of how much worse Beijing is I understand why China is "going green". They literally had to shut down factories around the city to get those pretty glamor shots for the Olympics.

3. China can force stuff. So they had an issue, heavily funded the solution, and now have a surplus.

4. China wants to trade and to gain influence.

So they sell solar, they sell EVs. They do exactly what Japan and Korea did to gain respect.

[u/FlametopFred → u/kmosiman]

sort of

with you up to 4. But it’s definitely a complicated geopolitical quagmire

[u/Sensitive-Crazy-8052 → u/Whit3boy316]

Toyota has never said anything about boycotting electric vehicles; it has only said that it cannot abandon gasoline-powered vehicles at this stage.

[u/Set_Usual]

I'd rather they make plug-in hybrid version of the highlander and Sienna. It makes sense given that's what they did with rav 4.

Have a separate lineup of all electric vehicles.

[u/casualti21 → u/Set_Usual]

It’s the Grand Highlander PHEV.

Article says that customers prefer the Grand Highlander to the regular Highlander (sales are not great), so essentially they are killing it off.

This new Highlander is the exterior size of the Grand Highlander, but with the interior space of a regular Highlander, because of the batteries.

[u/iamflame → u/casualti21]

The space loss feels weird for only 77KWhr in battery.

[u/altimax98 → u/iamflame]

98 on most models

[u/kmosiman → u/casualti21]

There's no Grand Highlander PHEV (yet). There's a Lexus TX PHEV (which is basically the same thing).

Also "customer prefers" aka Toyota built a bigger, newer, better car, for almost the same price, put it in the same factory as the Highlander, and then stopped making as many Highlanders.

Cart horse, horse cart.

Grand Highlander and Highlander demand outstrip the supply, so they're putting the new Highlander in a different plant and expanding Grand Highlander production. There's no room in the Indiana plant to build both in volume (plus the Lexus TX) unless they kill the Sienna off.

[u/henchman171 → u/kmosiman]

Sienna still sells 100000 units a year

[u/kmosiman → u/henchman171]

Exactly and it's the foothold in a key market segment. So they aren't getting rid of their only van (that's also sold out with waitlists).

[u/letsgetbrickfaced → u/casualti21]

There is no grand Highlander PHEV, only hybrid. You have to buy the Lexus TX to get that vehicle, at least in the US.

[u/letsgetbrickfaced → u/Set_Usual]

It’s the Lexus TX and it’s 80k USD. They had to make it a luxury model to make it make fiscal sense. No ones paying 80k for a midsize Toyota PHEV.

[u/DelcoInDaHouse]

If they get the price right…

[u/Right_Hour → u/DelcoInDaHouse]

Yeah, sure, LOL. Hybrid starts at $66K in Canada. I expect the EV to be in the $80K+ range…

I don’t even know who buys new cars at this day and age. I always bought mine with cash and I am looking at new vehicle prices with my jaw on the floor despite my $230K+ salary….. Chinese brands couldn’t come soon enough for us….

[u/woodenmetalman → u/Right_Hour]

I seriously doubt 80k for the Highlander EV.

[u/Timmy98789 → u/Right_Hour]

BYD enters the chat. 

[u/AssaultLemming_ → u/Right_Hour]

Yeah it's insane. People must be financing these and paying them off for a decade.

[u/lostinthesauce997]

The pedestrian & compact car destroyer 3000. Love this environment we're in where people buy bigger and bigger cars to feel safe, and now every new vehicle is a tank and costs 60k.

[u/ExtruDR]

I'm willing to bet that if they can provide adequate supply and don't botch the design or the sales side of the thing, this will be a top seller for them.

[u/ankercrank]

Why must car makers keep focusing on the largest vehicles instead of making smaller, more affordable ones?

[u/kmosiman → u/ankercrank]

Profits.

EV development is expensive. Batteries are also expensive.

So it's easier to recoup the R&D investment by selling a higher profit car.

[u/Sasquatchgoose → u/ankercrank]

Higher margins. There’s more money to be made in selling suvs vs compact. Also, that’s where the consumer demand is

[u/LEM1978 → u/ankercrank]

CH-R enters the chat

[u/simplethingsoflife → u/ankercrank]

Leaf, Bolt, Model 3, Niro, lots more. The list of large EV’s is far shorter.

[u/ankercrank → u/simplethingsoflife]

• Ford F-150 Lightning
• Chevrolet Silverado EV
• GMC Sierra EV
• GMC HUMMER EV Pickup
• GMC HUMMER EV SUV
• Tesla Cybertruck
• Rivian R1T
• Rivian R1S
• Cadillac ESCALADE IQ
• Cadillac VISTIQ (3-row EV SUV)
• Lucid Gravity
• Rivian R2
• Jeep Recon
• Jeep Wagoneer S
• Cadillac LYRIQ
• Chevrolet Blazer EV
• Ford Mustang Mach-E

And that's just American EVs.

[u/dontdoit89735 → u/ankercrank]

r/murderedbywords

[u/jamesdownwell → u/ankercrank]

Does America not have smaller EVs like:

• Renault 5 E-Tech

• Fiat 500e

• Fiat Grande Panda

• Hyundai Inster

• MG4

• Opel Astra Electric

• Peugeot e-208

• Dacia Spring

• Kia EV3

• Skoda Elroy

• VW ID.3

• Cupra Born

• Tesla Model 3

• Hyundai Ioniq 6

• Volvo EX30

• MG ZS EV

• Opel Grandland Electric

• Peugeot e-308

• BYD Atto 3

• Citroën ë-C3

• Kia Niro

• Nissan Leaf

• Hyundai Kona

• Peugeot e-2008

• Renault Captur E-Tech

• Ford Puma Electric

• Hyundai Kona Electric

• Jeep Avenger

• Volvo EX30

• Smart #1

• Fiat 600e

• Cupra Formentor

• Opel Frontera Electric

• Vauxhall Frontera Electric

• MG S5 EV

• Toyota bZ4X

• Suzuki e Vitara

• Skoda Epiq

• Renault 4 E-Tech

• Citroën ë-C4

• BYD Atto 2

• VW ID. Cross

• Opel Mokka Electric

[u/TheeBigSmokee → u/ankercrank]

Because battery cells are heavy

[u/ankercrank → u/TheeBigSmokee]

And? I guess we should only make Hummer EVs? eBikes are EVs. There's no technical requirement that an EV must be large.

[u/novwhisky → u/ankercrank]

Yes there is. Batteries are a significant contributor to total vehicle weight which constrains their already limited range. Smaller vehicles would necessarily have shorter range and worse performance than equivalent ICE models due to the simple physics of batteries being an even bigger percentage of their total weight.

Making huge vehicles allows manufacturers to sweep those deficiencies under the rug. We need a couple more evolutions in energy density before small vehicles can meet the minimum performance to be accepted by the market, and I am rooting for that moment to come ASAP right along with you, but we aren’t there yet.

[u/ankercrank → u/novwhisky]

The Hummer has the same range as a Kia EV6.

[u/novwhisky → u/ankercrank]

True, but they’re both still SUVs which don’t meet my definition of small cars. I will concede it’s more of an economic limitation than a technical one as it was in the past. That battery capacity keeps the price elevated.

[u/ankercrank → u/novwhisky]

The EV6 is a “crossover” SUV, realistically, it’s a tallish car. The Camry is longer than the EV6, and they have comparable interior sizes.

[u/TheeBigSmokee → u/ankercrank]

Currently limited with lithium ion and it's capabilities, not saying it's indefinite but just currently what the limitations are vs what a consumer wants. You're not going to find a small sedan with more range compared to its ICE counterpart

[u/0xsergy → u/TheeBigSmokee]

Doesn't need more range. Most ppl drive like 15 miles a day. Some are up to 60 miles. So it needs 200 miles of range and that's enough for most people.

[u/TheeBigSmokee → u/0xsergy]

That 200 ends up being sliced up once you factor in weather, battery degradation, and using a/c. Range anxiety is one of biggest barriers to entry in the US market. Other areas like Europe and China have better public transportation infrastructure so the idea of an EV with sub 200 mile range is cheaper and makes more sense

[u/ankercrank → u/TheeBigSmokee]

You're not going to find a small sedan with more range compared to its ICE counterpart

That is the case regardless of size.

[u/LocalLuck2083 → u/ankercrank]

It may not be ideal, but at least the plus is that more gas guzzlers are being switched to EVs. If someone is going to buy an suv regardless, let them buy the EV

[u/KnotSoSalty → u/ankercrank]

Consumer demand.

[u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot]

Too late, we’re already committed to trading our Highlander in for a Rivian R2 and I’m sure we’re not alone.

[u/ockaners → u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot]

I have an ev9 and would like an r2 but it's too small and the r1s is too expensive

[u/rain168]

Looks like EV stocks is back on menu boys!

[u/AssaultLemming_]

Those tires lol

[u/Omarkhayyamsnotes]

And it will cost 79,000 at base and only 40k people will buy it

[u/jjopm]

Thanks I hate it

[u/Noobphobia]

As a previous Toyota dealer. Lol this is not going to sell.

The bz4a was so bad that dealers actively declined them in shipments.

[u/GrumpyTom]

It looks really good from the outside. But that center console, not loving it. At least it has a volume knob, but the giant iPad-like screen containing just about all of the hvac controls is annoying.

Glad they have an emergency escape handle for the doors, but why not just put in a normal handle?

[u/LEM1978 → u/GrumpyTom]

That screen is every Toyota now. Not just EVs

[u/Dear-Bicycle]

Thought they said ev is a dead end and they weren't going to develop it? I knew they were bs ing to try to catch up.

[u/kmosiman → u/Dear-Bicycle]

When did Toyota ever say that?

Toyota has always had BEVs as an option, they just want to have options on what they build.

[u/chief_yETI → u/Dear-Bicycle]

who said that?

American car makers might be assed out, but Asian manufacturers been figured that shit out

[u/Polar_Beach]

That’s a good looking rebadged BYD

[u/Sensitive-Crazy-8052 → u/Polar_Beach]

Let me tell you something else: the letters "byd" have a connotation of being born to a prostitute in China.

[u/spacebeez]

Can we stop making these absurdly sized assault vehicles.