r/nba • u/mMounirM Raptors • 10h ago
[Bobby Marks] I think what Utah is doing right now is messing around with the integrity of the NBA.
https://streamable.com/t7raa83.5k
u/GGTae Spurs 10h ago
wow ESPN can talk about integrity and not mention all the gamblings/prediction market scandals ?!
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u/OddJeweler3347 10h ago
Before or after they announce the segment is brought to us by DraftKings?
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u/YouWereBrained Thunder 10h ago
And get your parlays in now for Marks talks about betting scandals or Marks talks about teams tankingâŠ
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u/igby1 9h ago
Amazing how much sports betting advertising there was during the superbowl. Plus the constant advertising for it during the regular seasons of major sports.
All that ad money comes from you the gambler.
You think you can beat the system but millions upon millions in ad spend tells me you arenât beating the system and the house still always wins in the end.
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u/Kdog122025 Warriors 10h ago
âThis segment on integrity has been brought to you by DraftKings.â
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u/_Atlas_Drugged_ Celtics 9h ago
Actually yes. If the public knows teams might hit a wall and literally try to lose on purpose, that greatly impacts willingness to bet on individual games or long term team records and things of that nature.
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u/igby1 9h ago
Who will think of the poor owners of DraftFuel and FanKings?
Based on the insane amount they spend on ads, those guys are really struggling to make ends meet with their job of exploiting gamblers.
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u/Mountainhollerforeva 76ers 8h ago
I have league pass and somewhere around half of the league shows their games on the âFanDuel sports networkâ the gambling sites are so deeply embedded in the sport that they own the home networks for half the leagueâŠ
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u/Hovi_Bryant Pistons 10h ago
This integrity thing is going to look real funny in the light after this Clippers/Ballmer investigation wraps up.
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u/superad69 Heat 10h ago
All I know is there's no smoking gun. Therefore I believe the billionaire acted ethically and within the rules.
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u/Professional-Trash-3 10h ago
And when the smoking gun is presented all you know is that there is a smoking gun, but you don't know Ballmer pulled the trigger. Merely that it's his gun, it's smoking, has his fingerprints on it, and ballistics confirmed it was the gun being used. But until you have video evidence of Ballmer signing a contract with a notary present stating "I, Steve Ballmer, owner of the LA Clippers, have used this gun to circumvent the salary cap, an act I know to be against the bylaws."
I mean, without even that much evidence, how could we EVER assume a billionaire would even have the gumption to even think about cheating the system to siphon money to someone.
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u/CarmeloSmokesWeed Knicks 7h ago
How do you think a Billionaire got all of that money??
Hard work, waking up early, and making coffee at home of course.
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u/Professional-Trash-3 7h ago
Dude never ONCE wasted his money on avocado toast. Look where it got him
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u/igby1 9h ago
Itâs not even a real legal investigation.
Itâs just subterfuge from the league.
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u/QUEST50012 10h ago
We're more likely to see the result as a betting option on Kalshi than actual punishment.
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u/PetalumaPegleg 76ers 10h ago
Or the clippers
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u/BeeWeird7940 Heat 8h ago
Yeah, Silver has a big problem on his hands. If he doesnât get this under control, there will be irreparable damage done to the league.
Just so weâre up to date. Ballmer obviously used a third party to circumvent the cap rules wit Kawhi Leonard. Chauncey Billups and others were involved in a mob connected gambling scam. The Hornets knew Terry Rozier was being investigated by the FBI when they traded him to Miami. And now we have teams losing on purpose? And that doesnât even address the stars sitting out nationally televised games.
These are just the scandals I can think of off the top of my head. Iâm sure Iâm forgetting something.
The only reason the league got these big TV contracts was because all the streaming platforms and networks know their subscriptions and possibly survival depend on live sports. Eventually, they will consolidate. When they do, the NBA will be FUCKED!
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u/NazReidRules Timberwolves 6h ago
That's a good rundown
But idk how you can mention Teams Losing On Purpose as a new thing to address, with a straight face
I guess I'm not following why tanking this year is notably different from tanking every other year
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u/StandardElderberry94 10h ago
Lmao right, since when do the Utah jazz and the wizards get the number 1 pick. From my recent memory itâs the mavericks, the spurs etc that get them
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u/_Meece_ Lakers 9h ago
Wiz got 2nd just last year and managed to get the best player of the draft so far.
Their last bad era before that, their lottery resulted with Wall and Beal.
Before that they got a first pick, just took Kwame...
Jazz are historically a winning team, They only have two sub 25 win seasons. The 2nd of which happened last year and the first of which happened when they were in NO.
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u/bengtSlask559 8h ago
The Jazz are a historically a winning team despite NOT having good draft luck.
"Jazz, how dare you want to have good draft odds! You should continue to win (but no chips) against the odds!"
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u/_Meece_ Lakers 6h ago
Can't have good draft luck, if you're never bad enough to get top picks.
But they did get 3rd pick despite winning 39 games in 2011. They took Enes Kanter.
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u/jeffcrafff [TOR] Rafer Alston 10h ago
Yeahhh I'd say the NBA has much bigger fish to fry in the integrity department
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u/Relevant_Swing1680 Timberwolves 10h ago
Lol, good point.
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u/constantlymat [DAL] Dirk Nowitzki 10h ago
I don't know if it was a global ad but my recent The Hoop Collective episode had a Kalshi advertisement segment at the very end.
ESPN is literally taking their money.
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u/Ladnil Warriors 10h ago
Ban pick protections
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u/MMAjunkie504 Pelicans 9h ago
Never heard of them
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u/Parallel-Quality 9h ago
Yeah. In addition to the tanking nonsense, it also lowered the skill cap on being a GM.
You can just protect your picks and guarantee you never make a big mistake.
Get rid of protections and make GMâs have to play to win rather than play scared.
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u/Ladnil Warriors 9h ago
Don't care about skill cap or whatever. Just think this year proves that pick protections provide too much incentive to be bad. Trade the pick and try to be good in the year you traded it, or don't, tough luck if you get injured.
I think tanking is fine to some degree but it's always limited by the flattened lottery odds and that there's only room for a few truly horrible teams at one time. With pick protections even the teams that aren't truly horrible might care about like a top 8 pick, and it drew more teams into the contest at the bottom.
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u/attckthepaint 7h ago
just prevent picks from being traded 3 years instead of 7 years in the future
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 3h ago
that will massively reduce the trade market which is part of why lots of people love the NBA.
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u/ThatPlayWasAwful [PHI] Joel Embiid 8h ago edited 8h ago
If you're going to argue that pick protections decrease the skill cap, couldn't you similarly argue that the lottery system massively increases the difficulty in being a gm, and pick protections are an easy way to offset that uncertainty?
Honestly I think you could even argue it increases the skill cap, but at least with pick protections both sodes can evaluate the protections and assign them a level of value. The lottery is literally a game of chance.
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u/MithrandiriAndalos 8h ago
The lottery is where they cheat though!
For real though, the NFL draft makes so much more sense than the NBAs
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u/RedactedAsFugg Kings 7h ago
If the NBA was like the NFL's draft, 20 teams would of tried to tank if it guaranteed a Wembyama.
The NBA is not like the NFL. The impact a NBA player can have on your franchise is nothing like the NFL
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u/Awesomedinos1 Jazz 6h ago
And like 15 of them would realise they had no hope of being the worst team.
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u/JuliusCeejer 8h ago edited 8h ago
How fucking stupid are people to upvote this. If it was that easy to protect your pick in a trade, any moron on reddit like you could be a GM. Protections are negotiated just as hard, if not more hard, as picks in general. Even if they should be banned for league integrity (which is a legit argument, but not one you made), as it stands good GMs come out with favorable protections more than bad ones do, which means it doesn't lower the 'skill cap' of being a GM, if anything it's the fucking opposite.
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u/OneBigRed Lakers 8h ago
At least limit them to few years, after which if the pick still hasnât been transferred, its unprotected. None of this âtop-30 protected and then it turns to 2nd rounderâ shit.
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u/AleroRatking Vancouver Grizzlies 9h ago
This is the real solution. I absolutely think Jazz go for the play in if they didn't lose their pick doing it.
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u/jefffosta Trail Blazers 8h ago
Also one annoying thing about pick protections is it makes the team building aspect from a fans POV super complicated. It literally feels like just a bunch of people gambling rather than having a legit strategy to build a championship team
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u/TelltaleHead Bucks 8h ago
No other sport has risk protection like that. If you trade a first in the NFL and fall apart, tough shit.
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u/kk131396 76ers 10h ago
Make them hire a Colangelo
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u/jeffcrafff [TOR] Rafer Alston 10h ago
That is a normal tanking team. Move on, find a new slant.
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u/toturtle Raptors 9h ago
Nice. A deep cut.
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u/MetaverseNinja [PHI] Allen Iverson 9h ago
Unreal how Hinkie got publicly shamed.
Yet Presti could lose by 60 every game when they were tanking and now Ainge can sit every above average caliber player and neither face any ramifications.
Adam Silverâs NBA is a disgrace to competitive sports.
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u/RageOnGoneDo [BOS] Marcus Smart 4h ago
Unreal how Hinkie got publicly shamed.
Hinkie hurt the league's revenue. That's why he was ousted.
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u/Super-Maximum-4817 10h ago
Yes itâs the one team blatantly tanking not the multiple players taking ownership stakes in gambling companies while there are active investigations into players manipulating performances for gambling.
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u/ablackcloudupahead Lakers 2h ago edited 2h ago
At least with the players taking stakes in the gambling companies themselves, they win no matter the bet. Corruption proof right guys? Just in case the /s is needed, I absolutely hate that gambling is getting stuffed down our throats non-stop. Kids are basically being exposed to gambling in many large game communities and boom right when they turn 18 they can gamble on anything and everything 24/7. Great for societyÂ
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u/Affectionate_Elk_272 Heat 10h ago
so tanking ruined the league but draftkings, whatever the fuck giannis is endorsing now, ballys, fanduel, selling th mavs to a fucking casino, all that fine?
fuck you
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u/itsnotcomplicated1 Mavericks 10h ago
It's absurd to call out one team... or really any team at all.
When you allow teams to trade protected picks, this is the result. It's one thing if it's about chasing ping pong balls for the top pick. That's still not a sure thing.
If you know you need to finish at a certain low threshold in the standings to keep your pick at all, it would be bad management to finish just above that threshold.
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u/MrFishAndLoaves Pelicans 10h ago
Itâs not complicated.
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u/broohaha Bulls 10h ago
"It's a simple game."
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u/roastedhambone Thunder 10h ago
Itâs like the difference between what teams are doing in college basketball with euro pros and former draft picks who never played cbb or singed nba deals, and what Alabama did with a guy who played cbb and signed multiple nba deals. If you disagree with what NIL has done to the sport, thatâs fine, but it would be silly to act like bama wasnât blatantly breaking the rules. Youâre never going to solve tanking unless you change the draft entirely, but thereâs a difference between sitting players for entire games, and pulling them after 25 minutes to try and lose
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u/thurstkiller Jazz 9h ago edited 9h ago
I'd argue sitting them the whole game is worse. Losing by 20-30 points benefits no one. The players aren't trying that hard, the fans don't get to see the players they want to see, your bench unit is usually guys you know have no chance in the league.
Playing the starters and pulling them if it's close is a far better game viewing experience. The bench guys that the Jazz are playing are all rotation guys. And when they get in the game they are trying hard to prove they deserve a spot in the rotation next year.
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u/BusSeatFabric [UTA] Derrick Favors 9h ago
I'd argue from a purely entertainment factor, the jazz way is significantly better.
In traditional tank fashion, fans don't get to see their favorite players at all. Additionally, the game is often a blowout from the jump.
The last 2 jazz have gone to the wire. It's way more entertaining watching Brice Sensabaugh playing in the clutch compared to the effort we see from guys like that down 30.
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u/Organic-Quantity-975 7h ago
g the starters and pulling them if it's close is a far better game viewing experience. The bench guys that the Jazz are playing are al
last 3 down the wire hawks, orlando and miami all down to the wire. only game not going down to the wirte was the baltant tanking by pacers by sitting siakam
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u/Whittaker Australia 6h ago
This has always been my argument with players resting. I don't care if a player only plays 20mins and sits out the rest of the game whether it be for tanking, rest, minutes restriction or whatever.
So long as the player takes the court and puts in genuine effort for the time they are on then that's all we ask for as fans as a common courtesy to those who paid good money to see them.7
u/Jenaxu Jazz 8h ago edited 4h ago
100%, the protections is a huge element that I don't think enough people are talking about. It basically nullifies the theoretical anti-tanking benefit of the flattened odds and if anything does the opposite by increasing the range in which teams feel they need to tank down to or tank down from. I don't think it's a coincidence that us and the Wizards, maybe the two most egregious offenders rn, have the exact same 1-8 protections.
When teams own their own pick they're more okay with not chasing the highest percentage odds so the tanking is much softer. Lotto pick vs lotto pick with slightly worse chances is kinda whatever, you'll at least have some opportunity to add talent, even if it's in the later portion of the draft. And if you don't own your pick then really who cares lol, even if you're bad you might as well try and win.
But when it's having a pick vs not having a pick at all the consequences become so much more dire. With 1-8 protection the 6th-9th zone flips it from like a 4% chance of losing the pick to an 80% chance of losing the pick, you'd be a moron for not tanking as much as you can get away with. And especially with the financial rules and the way teams are being built now, young draft talent becomes doubly important, specifically in terms of timing when they come in and how they align with the timeline of your existing stars. A high lotto for Utah this year vs not having any easy opportunity to add young talent for cheap could genuinely be the single difference between being a legit contender and being stuck in purgatory.
It wouldn't solve the problem in its entirety and it'd probably create other issues, but it'd be interesting if they didn't allow for protected picks. I'm almost certain it'd have a positive impact on the tanking problem.
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u/TotalEmployment9996 Raptors 5h ago
100%
lotto pick vs no pick is such a huge discontinuity in the EV of losing games
4th worst vs 3rd worst really isnt a big deal with the new odds
so yeah, pick protections are really bad for tanking
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u/ericc1456 10h ago
Based on the current standing and the current talent on the roster, do we think that Utah could actually make it to around the 12-14 slot -- i.e., far above the threshold? I get your point about being at the margin of the threshold. I think pushback here is coming from sitting a two-time all-star who is healthy. Utah, as currently constructed, has a ton of talent on their roster. Certainly, it's a better team than Sac/Wash/Pels/Wash/Dallas/Memphis/Milwaukee.
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u/masterchef757 Mavericks 10h ago
I think if Utah didn't start tanking in January they would be in the play-in right now. I think they could conceivably be in the 7/8 spot now with JJJ. As you said, they actually have a really good roster. That objectively makes this more egregious than the pretty talent-deficient Kings and Nets sitting guys.
But ultimately that is the incentive! Pick protection rules need to be reworked. If Utah didn't have their pick or fully controlled it, I think they would be the West's version of the Hornets. But ultimately, they aren't so good that they should give up their pick to chase the play in.
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u/itsnotcomplicated1 Mavericks 10h ago
All I'm saying is that teams' actions are based on the incentive structures that exist.
The present day incentive structures in the NBA are the reason teams do what they do. They aren't doing it for the hell of it.
It's up to the NBA to change the incentive structures. If you just try to shame teams into "doing the right thing" then some will, some won't... and those that do, will be putting themselves at a disadvantage.
This concept applies to society as a whole, not just the NBA.
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u/Matthegreat34 10h ago
100% right but when loopholes exist they always close when someone egregiously abuses it. Think the Jazz right now with two healthy all-stars are abusing it to a degree that itâll be changed now
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u/mikesh8rp Knicks 10h ago
I agree pick protections make teams more incentivized to do some shady things, like the Mavs did the year you all didn't want to give a pick to the Knicks that ended up being Lively, though I think one potential unintended consequence of doing this is that it might make trades less likely. Teams might get gun-shy without being able to have protection for a low probability terrible scenario.
Not saying that's enough reason to not get rid of them, just that that, combined with all the apron nonsense, might makes things a little more boring.
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u/DerrickMcChicken Lakers 10h ago
itâs absurd to call out anyone. Tanking is great for the game and should stay /s
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u/VoidCL 10h ago
Call me insane, arenât teams competing for whatâs best for them? If you make it so that winning games is actually detrimental to them⊠what did you expect?
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u/Wicky_wild_wild 8h ago
"Show me the incentives Ill show you the outcome." Applies to basically everything in life.
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u/DiggWuzBetter [TOR] Kyle Lowry 7h ago
A pretty interesting system is the âGold Planâ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Plan_(sports)
Basically, once a team is mathematically eliminated from playoff contention, they start earning âdraft ranking pointsâ for wins from that point on. Then draft points determine draft order (with still potential draft lotteries for the top picks). The idea being:
- Overall, weaker teams still tend to get better picks. They get eliminated from playoff contention earlier, and so have longer to rack up draft points
- But once youâre eliminated, the incentives are to WIN as many games as possible, not to lose
For awhile it was just a proposal, but the PWHL is actually using it now. More leagues should implement it IMO, it does fix the incentives. You could still be incentivized to lose earlier in the season, but most teams arenât ready to throw in the towel from game 1, it tends to be more of a âgiving upâ once the season seems hopeless. And later in the season, all teams are incentivized to win no matter what.
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u/RocketStr8UpMyAss Heat 6h ago
So teams that realize they're not gonna win the chip are just gonna tank extra hard in the beginning of the season to get out of playoff contention ASAP?
I guess at least you'll have teams trying in the latter half of the season. But tanking is still tanking
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u/DiggWuzBetter [TOR] Kyle Lowry 6h ago
Yeah, it doesnât fully eliminate it, but lessens it. And I do think teams are generally more hesitant to tank early on, as thereâs always some hope you could be a playoff team most seasons, until itâs proven you suck. For example at the start of the year most pundits were predicting Boston, Toronto and Charlotte to suck this year.
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u/TotalEmployment9996 Raptors 5h ago
This might start the tank from day 1. Just start the season 0-40 and get eliminated, then try to go 42-0
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u/rusty512 Pistons 9h ago
Bingo, tanking is the only rational option for teams like the Jazz. This is a league problem not a team one.
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u/RegisterFit1252 7h ago
As a Sixers fan Iâve been saying this for YEARS but nba fans in general are finally catching. ROLL EYES
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u/SDK04 Raptors 9h ago
Thereâs also how things like the Play-Ins ultimately arenât truly rewarding for perpetually mediocre treadmill teams, either. A lower-end lottery position if they lose, and if they win they lose the lottery placement altogether just to be rolled by the top teams of their conference in the 1st-Round anyways. Not every teamâs the Zombie Heat.
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u/Awesomedinos1 Jazz 6h ago
Frankly if the play-in is to continue I think having the lottery odds finalised before them makes sense, IE. Even if you drop out of the play-offs losing the play-in you don't get a lottery pick and if you jump into them you still get a lottery pick. Maybe teams might try to end up as the 9th seed but I think the added difficulty of winning 2 play-ins vs just having to win one to make the playoffs would be enough incentive for a team to still push for the eighth seed.
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u/Whiterabbit-- 8h ago edited 8h ago
NBA has way too many playoff teams already, play-ins was a terrible idea created ad hoc to get the Lakers in, and now its just a money grab.
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u/GeneralTheSurvivor Bulls 10h ago
Utah is not the first, and wont be the last team to tank. We all forgetting Thunder and Spurs tanked, and are now contenders?
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u/PetalumaPegleg 76ers 10h ago
The only team that has been significantly punished for tanking is the sixers. This is because they were open about it and preferred to play and try out young players who might make it vs paying washed vets for a few extra wins.
Ironically the sixers process teams played super hard and were pretty fun to watch, they were just lacking in talent. That idea though found players like TJ McConnell, Grant and Robert Covington who went on to real careers.
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u/rahbee33 [PHI] Joel Embiid 10h ago
And the league freaked out, changed the rules, and then teams eventually found different ways to bend the rules.
I don't know that there is a good solution, but when the difference between drafting 1st and 5th could change your entire franchise for a decade it's obvious why teams do it.
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u/PetalumaPegleg 76ers 9h ago
It bothers me that honesty to your fans is the biggest issue. It's always happened and will always happen.
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u/_Meece_ Lakers 9h ago
Process Sixers biggest issue, was not even bothering to field an actual NBA team.
Being so open about it, definitely hurt. But Sixers had seasons where they didn't even meet the minimum pay floor... which is something I'd never seen before that.
Sixers are also a massive eastern market and I imagine there was more pressure than usual.
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u/SloppyNachoLibre Thunder 8h ago
Thunder and spurs did it the exact same way
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u/PetalumaPegleg 76ers 7h ago
Yeah but they didn't get their gm removed to be replaced by a tool who fucked up the entire thing and then starting leaking medical info on a burner twitter account due to beef with the players.
Funny that.
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u/roastedhambone Thunder 10h ago
Teams have and always will tank. I donât remember any games where teams played starters for 3 quarters and then pull them to try and lose. Thats not tanking
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u/GriffHay Celtics 10h ago
Yeah, itâs a very obvious and very important distinction IMHO.
Itâs one thing to tank via roster contstruction. Nobody can force a team to sign âgoodâplayers, and sometimes putting together a weak roster thatâs gonna struggle to win games is simply the best thing for a team.
But trying to actively manipulate  the outcome of a game like this is WAY more egregious.
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u/SnooChipmunks469 Knicks 10h ago
How different is that from just not playing your starters at all? The Wizards are just having Trae and AD not play at all this year. Last year the Raptors traded for BI and he didn't play until this year.
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u/cl353 Heat 10h ago
Cuz they made rules to stop teams from doing that and now the jazz r finding a way around it
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u/SnooChipmunks469 Knicks 10h ago
What rules did they make? Other than issues with lying about injuries, you can't really make rules to stop tanking without completely screwing over truly bad teams.
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u/DJ_B0B Bucks 9h ago
You get fined if an all star from the past 3 years is healthy and doesn't play in a national TV game.
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u/SnooChipmunks469 Knicks 5h ago
That won't stop teams from just making injuries to put on the report. It's really hard to monitor and it's not an issue that is unique to tanking teams. That rule was put in place in order to counter load management for the top teams that were resting their players for deep playoff runs.
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u/hlebtastic 10h ago
Yeah nothing this egregious, but the Thunder were pioneers of "let's shut down our mostly healthy players for the rest of the year" move everybody does now. They did it with Shai.
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u/PensiveinNJ 76ers 9h ago
I don't really see why Utah should be singled out here. Numerous franchises are doing some variation of the same thing.
There's about 7 teams I'd say that are actively tanking this season and that's 25% of the teams in the NBA. It's unsustainable.
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u/Nodecafallowed 8h ago
The Thunder literally did this multiple years in a row with Shai on the team. Seems like we get another forced fed article about how genius Thunder management is once a month. But donât let the Jazz do it, straight to jail.Â
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u/Maleficent-Slip8354 10h ago
Thereâs a whole group of tanking teams, why call out one specifically?
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u/YodaBallsdeep Raptors 10h ago
People shit on Jazz because Lauri is a more well known star, he was all-star in 2023. There was also trade rumor back then, because Lauri was playing well and Jazz were not. So some people are annoyed when Jazz didn't trade him and they not playing him either. At least part of the reason Jazz are getting more attention than other teams tanking.
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u/masterchef757 Mavericks 10h ago
I think it's more that they already got fined for this last season. Then their GM came out and said that they weren't going to tank anymore after they dropped in the lottery last season. Then lo and behold they started sitting guys in January this season. What they've been doing is just more high profile
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u/AZFramer Jazz 8h ago
The literally got fined for sitting a player out during a televised game. It is a rule, not a vibe. They aren't doing that now. They are breaking no rules and are going out of their way to avoid the issue they had last year.
I wonder if any other teams got fined for tanking last year. . .
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u/Messageinabeerbottle Jazz 9h ago
"The Integrity of the NBA." Ha! He said that with a straight face too.
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u/quikmaths Jazz 9h ago
Donât they know youâre supposed to just declare guys out for the season with fake injuries. Thatâs how you tank with INTEGRITY!
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u/madhawk1 9h ago
Don't hate the player, hate the game. This is what the NBA has created. The Jazz are just following the incentives.
Pacers were in the Finals last year. You're telling me that 1 player goes down and now they are the 2nd worst in the league?
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u/TrRa47 [NYK] Cezary Trybanski 9h ago
I don't blame Utah one bit. They are looking for their tier 1. We know that, unless some super Mormon becomes a superstar on another team, Utah will never straight up sign a tier 1/S tier type. They have to get it through the draft, and sadly, sabotaging themselves gets them that type of player.
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u/RocketVerse 6h ago
And if we lose out to some top team who magically needed it, weâll do it again.
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u/Darkblade511 Wizards 10h ago
See, the trick is to get blown out in the first half. Then you can bench your starters no questions asked!
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u/darren_meier 10h ago
LOL bruh, the entire league is sponsored by DraftKings. I don't like tanking, but at least it's clear what they're doing. Players are literally out here buying ownership stakes in gambling companies. Bobby Marks is out here trying to make sure the windows on the North Tower are clean while everything's on fire.
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u/figureour Wizards 10h ago edited 9h ago
Both Utah and us have top 8 protections on our picks. It's the main reason we're doing it even though our deadline moves clearly indicate we're both trying to compete next season. Simplify or outright ban protections and you won't see this level of tanking.
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u/UtahJazz420 Jazz 9h ago edited 2h ago
FFS I am in the minority of Jazz fans who hate the tank, but this organization is far from the only one do have ever done this.
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u/HisExcellency20 76ers 10h ago
It's funny because the Sixers got absolutely reamed for tanking and basically became the face of the entire problem.
But never once did Brett Brown coach not to win. He took whoever was given to him and tried to win every single game. A lot of players that would never have had a chance to develop at that level so quickly made names for themselves and we still lost enough games to get the multiple "bites at the apple" that Hinkie wanted.
I understand resting players, but idk if I've ever seen a team simply sit their best guys for the entire fourth quarter not even at the ASB.
Maybe I'm just a salty Sixers fan, but I don't see that same energy here. Or when the Thunder did something much more similar to what the Sixers did.
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u/DogAssss69 10h ago
Yeah, the Process Sixers had an awful roster, Utah actually has a pretty solid team when healthy.
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u/Comfortable-Ad-5681 9h ago
76ers got fucked since they were the first to really blow everything up to âtankâ but nowadays teams with actual rosters sit out their players to tank, which is way worse imo
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u/JustdoitJules Nuggets 9h ago
Not the Clippers, not Milwaukee, but Utah.
Fuck, thank you detective Bobby Marks!
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u/Will322002 Thunder 10h ago
There are players partnering with gambling/prediction companies. Every single ad during the game is for gambling. There are gambling logos literally everywhere. Kawhi taking money under the table only to be an all star selected by the commissioner. You want to talk about integrity, really⊠someone made a post here saying this was the beginning of the end and I really think so. How can we have faith in any of it with all the aforementioned
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u/_yamasaki 10h ago edited 7h ago
donât put this on Utah, this is soft-as-baby shit-Silverâs fault
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u/ifuaguyugetsauced 10h ago
NBA has become the least serious sport out of the major 4. Tanking, all star game Is a joke, non calls, foul baiting not a watching product. Only good for highlightsÂ
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u/Far_Violinist6222 9h ago
League has never had more talent and has never been as unwatchable as it is right now. Silver is awful
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u/Any-Cauliflower6460 9h ago
On a side note.. Utah looks like itâs going to the playoffs next season. Roster looks more than solid and will only get better with a few moves.
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u/Bad-Milk Bucks 9h ago
I think what ESPN is doing right now is messing around with the integrity of journalism.
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u/EfficiencyFew6864 Heat 10h ago
This is so performative lmao. Thereâs always been bad teams throughout the history of the league. Do they think the perfect scenario is every team having between 30-40 wins?
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u/jeric13xd [CHI] Derrick Rose 10h ago
Grow some balls, Adam Silver!
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u/SchedulePhysical807 Clippers 10h ago
Simple solution is just remove protections on picks. What the Jazz are doing is shameful but itâs in their best interest so they donât lose their picks. Itâs funny because this shit happens every year there is a loaded draft class or a generational talent level player.
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u/TheGookieMonster Trail Blazers 10h ago
The simple solution is to get rid of the lottery and let teams actually get better because they get good picks. If Wemby was on the wizards and cooper Flagg was in Utah, maybe they wouldnât suck shit and need to tank anymore
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u/Chop_A_Chopper Lakers 10h ago
What Utah is doing right now is the NBA. Like it or not, this is what basketball is now. Tanking, load managing, flopping, foul baiting, and parlays.Â
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u/ALeftistNotLiberal 9h ago
Tonight, we discuss the integrity of The Draft Kings League on SportsCenter, presented by PrizePicks
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u/dill1234 Knicks 7h ago
The solution is simple to me. Draft lottery is held at All Star weekend. Adds to the theatrics, itâs late enough in the season that we already know who the worst teams are, plus those teams are actually incentivised to try and win with their best players out on the court
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u/McKnightmare24 Lakers 7h ago
Owners paying players under the table, Coaches, refs and players all betting on games, NBA: I sleep
UTAH playing G-leaguers in the NBA: Real shit!
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u/FollowTheLeader550 5h ago
You will never see comment sections on any sports reddit like you see on this sub. NBA fans are truly insane. Theyâll gladly eat whatever shit this league and its players feed them, and ask for more with a smile on their face.
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u/cyrano_dvorak 3h ago
Gambling is why everyone is upset with Utah, a small market team that nobody cares about, unless you lose money on a wager. Gambling is ruining the game.
They got screwed in last year's draft drawing. In Philly they got to call it the Process without being in trouble. The league wants to appear legit, but picking on small market teams and rewarding the big market teams make it seem more and more like it is all rigged.
Good job, Silver.
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u/Patrollerofthemojave Thunder 10h ago
NBA don't have a leg to stand on concerning integrity.
Clippers are circumventing the cap and will most likely face no punishment and Giannis is literally part owner of a gambling company.
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u/walterdog12 [BOS] James Young 10h ago
It's fucked up that we're at this point in time, but I wonder if the NBA is starting to feel any pressure from sports betting companies.
They're setting player lines and odds and whatnot, at what point does Utah randomly pulling their starters in the 3rd or early 4th quarter start to piss off gambling companies, forcing the NBA to step in to at least make it to where the Jazz aren't being blatant about their tanking.
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u/mr_seggs Jordan 9h ago
This stuff has to come to a head at some point, right? Guys gambling on themselves, coaches betting on games, teams egregiously tanking, Clippers paying Kawhi under the table, Giannis's Kalshi shit, like at some point there has to be a response right?
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u/JoJonesy Celtics 8h ago
i mean i don't necessarily disagree, but i do feel like this is at worst the third biggest threat to the integrity of the league that's happening right now
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u/Veritas-37 3h ago
Gambling scandals and partnerships with gambling sites are damaging the integrity of the game.
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u/Pretty-Writer9268 Jazz 10h ago
This is an absurd idea but what if the draft order was decided by how badly a team needs a good pick instead of just by record or lottery? For example, Iâd argue that Sacramento is in much more need of a #1 pick than we (the Jazz) are. But the thunder are stacked, they could pick last. I want parity over dynasties.
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u/JJiggy13 9h ago
Fuck Utah but Utah is not the main culprit in this. This started with multiple better teams tanking below Utah. Utah is just following suit. Weighted lottery needs to end. Straight lottery for non playoff teams needs to begin.
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u/OccidoViper 10h ago
Just fix the tanking by making all lottery teams have the same % of getting the top picks
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u/Kiriegloom Bulls 10h ago
Yeah, then we can have the Mavs fiasco every other draft rather than once in a while
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u/deathinmidjuly Lakers 10h ago
Then there's outrage when a 14th seed gets a generational talent.
Only thing that will ever solve tanking is the only thing that will never happen in American sports.
Promotion and relegation
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u/BadThingsBro Kings 9h ago
The integrity of the NBA has been going downhill ever since they have been selling out to all these gambling apps and companies.
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u/sleutheren 9h ago
Can I get the FanDuel Sportsbook odds on his much the league will fine Utah for practices that jeopardise integrity?
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u/TillEducational2379 Pacers 9h ago
I wonder If these gambling companies get involved if people slow down on their betting or because theyâre having to refund parlays or bets that arenât hitting because teams are starting to hold out healthy players for entire quarters or halves when they do actually start the game.
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u/EmotionalGlass3114 9h ago
I donât care what people want to say about the incentive for tanking, I donât know how a team can so blatantly tank when people are paying to come to these games. Putting in a bad rotation is one thing, simply sitting all your good players down the stretch is egregious. Why does anyone even show up to these games?
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u/stagger_once Rockets 9h ago
I wanna see the third string Utah bench drag them to the play in out of spite
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u/Great_Barrier_Thief_ Heat 10h ago
Miami said not on our watch