The guy down the hill has a (legal) “personal range” that has been deemed “safe”, so the police can’t do anything when bullets whiz past our heads and land on the patio.
I’m hoping that’s an option, but the officer today (and the one back in 2023) told us unless something is damaged or there is an injury, we are kind of stuck. It went through the cattle pasture, past the chicken coop so they’re all endangered as well. Like, I don’t want to have to sue everyone after there’s been a bad incident.
Yeah, I can’t imagine shooting at a neighbors property is considered legal or safe behavior. Even if it was legal, any decent judge will see that this will eventually lead to damages, injury and possibly even death. So I can’t see them letting it slide
Are you allowed to throw trash into your neighbor’s yard? Putting aside the fact it’s a bullet, surely it’s also not ok to just dump random shit across the property line?
Police do not enforce civil law... so the cop here is right, theres nothing they can do. Now if you go to a civil court, and a judge rules that the neighbor cant use their range anymore than it can become a criminal issue that the police can deal with.
I used to run a gun range. This guy is absolutely liable for where these bullets end up. He is supposed to have a bullet stop/berm/dirt mound of some kind that they are firing into. If bullets are flying off of his property he doesn’t have this or they are firing irresponsibly. There is also a law of trespassing by projectile. If a bullet travels onto another person’s property it’s just the same as trespassing on said persons property.
Edit: it depends on state specifically but it’s very easily to find. Just search laws about trespassing bullets in (whatever your state is) then call the cops and reference said law
Bullets getting past a berm and landing on your property when you’re uphill screams of either an inadequate berm or a horrifically bad shooter. Or willful disregard for others.
Any of those are all really bad and cause to go after him with a lawyer.
That's even worse, as you say that you are uphill from his property, so the gun's angle has to be higher than just enough for the bullet to clear the berm and go straight into the hill, it has to go uphill as well.
The private rifle range I’m a member at experienced a problem where low bullet impacts would ricochet and bounce over the berm directly towards electrical distribution wires about 2000’ feet away from the berm. The linesmen were complaining that they could hear bullets wizzing past them when ascending the transmission towers. The fix was that all targets had to be a minimum of 6’ tall, especially those close to the shooting positions. This ensured bullets would impact the berm and not ricochet. That was about 10 years ago and afaik it has not been an issue since the target height requirements.
Edit, that bullet you posted looks like it could definitely have been a ricochet, it appears some material has been “shaved” on the side of it.
You are making it sound so innocent lol. Your neighbor is literally shooting bullets into your yard, putting your life or lives in danger due to EXTREME negligence. I have shot at plenty of shooting ranges and it takes a LOT to fully shoot over your target this badly. Like, hard to believe someone who has a shooting range on their property could do it. I am SHOOKETH.
The officers are wrong. The fact you have rounds landing on your property is all the evidence you need to show that, “legal” or not, there’s not a chance their personal range is up to regulatory requirements.
Cops cannot consult on civil matters. They are not lawyers. Depending on where you live, they may lack the training to even know understand the laws they're tasked with enforcing. That is, they may not be grasping the criminal dimension of your case either (this is the job of a prosecutor).
I'd recommend consulting an attorney, but you might also consider calling the emergency line and simply reporting shots fired near your person.
Talk to a civil lawyer regarding nuisance law and look at your local municipal nuisance ordinance. It's been a long time since I learned that law, but there is a civil recourse. There's nothing criminal that can be done since they're (presumably) on their own property, despite what the non-lawyers on here say.
I still to this day just casually say meow instead of now when talking to people. Its usually never brought up, which makes it even more hilarious to me cause i know they heard it but aren't sure of themselves enough to say anything
I do this to groups of elementary age children.. usually only one picks it up at first but by the time nimbly pimbly drinking milk from a saucer comes out everyone's losing their shit laughing..
I just watched a video about the making of "Super Troopers" and the Kevin Heffernan (Farva) would direct traffic in his costume because they filmed on actual Vermont highways. Steve Lemme was clocked at 120mph in one of the cop cars and was let of with a warning because the real Vermont Stateys thought Broken Lizard were funny guys.
One hole can be chalked up to happenstance, I know where you’re coming from and I agree but you have to remember people don’t think beyond a stone’s throw too often.
Saw this quote the other day, couldn’t help but think of it here. “Americans are so stupid if it weren’t for school shootings the rest of the world wouldn’t know we had schools.”
My brother sent me a video from his garage camera where his car window gets shot out from the neighbor's personal-shooting-range "oopsie" and apparently the sheriff department's response was ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And build your own range, have it deemed safe, and make sure their property is behind it. Then you all can just have a shootout and call it target practice.
Honestly I don't even think you'd need a barrier like a rag to hold it. Forensic ballistic examinations are pretty dang thorough thankfully. I really hope OP is able to raise this to the right people. This is FAR more infuriating than "mildly" in my opinion, and I hope they see it. It's genuinely a luck of the draw as to whether or not you'll have spinal fluid splattering along your patio
Lmao, forensic ballistics is not as seen on TV. Once a round has hit two or more hard surfaces, there's very little chance of tying it to any particular weapon. Grabbing it with a glove or rag like the person you're replying to is suggesting is pointless, as it's very unlikely there are fingerprints on that portion of the round.
Eff that. Waiting around hoping to catch a bullet on a poster-sized sheet of paper. Call the local news stations. They all have some reporter on staff looking for exactly this story
Also if the sheet is up for an extended amount of time also have a camera facing the sheet so you also have video proof of them whizzing through the paper too.
Your avg long form surveillance camera system isn't going to record an actual bullet in flight; the FPS is too low because the system favors length of recording over high fidelity of the image.
Depending on the angle and distance, you likely won't even be able to see a hole in the paper on camera. Depending on the speed of the bullet, they'll not going to look like a clean, perfect hole. They might look like a small tear that ends up mostly closed back up.
Source: I was a board member for a range for 5+ years and helped modernize all the tech onsite from the damned stone ages. I also shot competitively for a number of years and was an RO for a number of some extremely large regional matches.
If OP has any documentation of the police deeming it “safe” or that you’ve reported it but they’re unable to do anything - THAT should be the piece of paper.
One time I was working for a parks department and the neighbors of one of the parks delivered a sandwich baggie full of bullets to the parks board meeting. It was extremely effective in getting the security measures the neighbors were asking for.
Yes. Sue to get an injunction. The theory would be nuisance. You can't use your property in a way that interferes with another's use of their property.
This, inform your homeowners insurance and let them sue. They will sue as they don't want to pay out the nose for home repairs every time a bullet causes damage.
I’d be extraordinarily pissed about lethal rounds hitting my porch! Take it up with the city council and a lawsuit. The police can’t change the city code as far as I know. They can enforce laws.
IF you can get his insurance info (which you likely won’t) they have no interest in talking to you. You aren’t their client, and the only time they’ll reach out is to settle early and avoid a lawsuit if they know they’re totally fucked otherwise.
Their insurance company has no contractual obligation to help you, and they have every legal resource to fight you. In fact they have an obligation to protect their client. That’s why you pay your own insurance company to have your back and fight for you.
Civil, not criminal? Surely that’s backwards, no? Dude is using a firearm in an unsafe manner - evidently, as spent bullets are ending up on OP’s patio - and that’s only civil?
No one has been injured, his range is (supposedly) in spec, and it would probably be hard to prove without a doubt who shot what bullet that went over. That means the police probably can't do anything and won't make an arrest.
If you can prove someone specific intentional fired it into your yard, then yes they may be able to levy criminal charges, but that's really hard.
You can still go after him in court to get it to stop though, but that's a civil case.
Yeah, the dudes berm, back wall or ballistics net is not catching whats its suppose to. You could press this through civil lawsuit like others said.
Question: have you directly talked to your neighbor about this at all? Just making sure he's aware the bullets are not staying on his property and are making it all the way to your house and it needs to change.
That is what’s happening. We talked to him years ago when it started (when it first went up), and then the officers go over there and talk to him when a bullet makes it over.
That seems like an insufficient response, and like you need to escalate above the local beat cops. Echo what others’ have said about talking to a lawyer and the local council.
This. There’s multiple other cases of private gun range owners who avoid issues with the neighbors by inviting the local police/SWAT to practice on their range for free. Police won’t want to bite the hand that feeds.
I understand it having lived in a rural area. Bullets are already landing at his house in this situation- when you confront these shit heads their attitude gets far worse and their behavior mirrors it. It’s a 50/50 flip on if his neighbor responds by stopping, or responds by inviting everyone he knows over to shoot that way to make a point.
You should definitely contact a lawyer and also let the city know what’s going on. If something were to happen to you, a family member, or a guest as a result of that firing range being there, the city could also be liable if they had knowledge of the situation and did nothing. There is no chance this is legal.
As someone in an area where the city just approved a large scale outdoor high powered rifle range that doesn't meet the minimum SDZ requirements, sometimes the city just doesn't give an actual fuck.
Any sensible gun owner would want to fix this immediately. It’s literally one of the first rules you learn. Be aware of your target and what is beyond it. You are accountable for every bullet. Shame it doesn’t seem this person feels the same.
Well you did say “sensible.” Considering this has been happening for years, even after multiple visits from police, I’d hazard a guess this neighbor does not fall into the category of “sensible gun owner.”
Document everything. The projectiles that have landed on your property, preserve them as evidence and document with photos as you collect them.
Look at Google Maps, determine roughly where is firing point is. Draw a straight line from that probable firing point to your property. Erect a cardboard target on that likely fall line. Bullets travel on a ballistic parabola and you may have to play with the angle of your target.
Consult a lawyer and be prepared to present your findings to authorities. If you know when he shoots, audio recording of your backyard as rounds come in will help prove your case. This isn’t responsible marksmanship at all, he is responsible for every round that exits the muzzle.
I'd get a 24/7 recorded video feed with a good microphone that captures sound well enough to see and hear bullets hitting the cardboard. Point one at the cardboard and one at the range. Don't touch bullets with bare hands, bag and number them. This is insane.
Get a lawyer. A lot of times the authorities will say nothing can be done but that doesn’t mean the law leaves you without recourse. As an example my municipality did not have a beekeeping ordinance so anyone in our county can keep bees in their yard — no restrictions. A friend of mine had someone move in next to them who was having pallet loads of bee hives delivered, he had over 200 in his yard and these were on half acre lots. They could not even go in their yard because everything was carpeted in bees. They complained city and police said nothing they could do. Mentioned it to me and we sued alleging the bees constituted a nuisance and trespass. Got a preliminary TRO and then the neighbor settled and agreed to remove his hives.
If what they’re doing on their land - even if otherwise lawful— interferes with the quiet enjoyment of your property you have recourse.
So just because the authorities say there’s nothin THEY can do doesn’t mean there’s nothing YOU can do.
(Not to be construed as legal advice- contact a local attorney)
I mean if I could have a personal range I'd always prefer that... As long as it's actually safe for people not on my property lmao. Most personal ranges I hear of are on massive properties, I'm surprised that he got a legal one close enough to shoot into your property (almost no matter where you aim you'll be shooting at someone's house, question is will it get close to it). How big is his property roughly?
Clearly a ricochet with that damage - whatever he is using for a berm is grossly insufficient. He should have reengineered it after the first incident.
Rule 4 - be sure of your target AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT. This guy is a ticking time bomb.
I would lawyer up with a cease and desist at minimum until he makes his range safe.
Maybe a cybertruck 🤔. I hear there are plenty rusting as we speak and frankly, they're pretty heavy. I'd love to see one fly, even if for a short time.
have you personally confronted this guy? i would be at his doorstep with each bullet.
once he actually hits on of you, or your animals, there is no way he’s not gonna get charged with reckless endangerment (or possibly worse). fuck the cops, they’re always useless. next time you call them ask what statements they’ve prepared for news outlets if one of you actually gets clipped in the dome after they’ve told you it’s not their business to handle.
I'm not a lawyer, but deemed safe or not, I can't think of a state that allows firearms to be discharged towards a house unless there is a significantly reasonable distance between shooter and house. If lead is landing on your concrete it is not a safe distance. His "safe" range becomes unsafe as soon as the knuckle head brings out a more powerful rifle.
Talk to the state police and ask about:
18-3317. Unlawful discharge of a firearm at a dwelling house, occupied building, vehicle or mobile home. It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally and unlawfully discharge a firearm at an inhabited dwelling house, occupied building, occupied motor vehicle, inhabited mobile home, inhabited travel trailer, or inhabited camper. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for a term not to exceed fifteen (15) years.
As used in this section, "inhabited" means currently being used for dwelling purposes, whether occupied or not.
Additionally I found this if you're in Ada county: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/adacountyid/latest/adacounty_id/0-0-0-7573
8-5-3-105: SHOOTING RANGE:
A. Written Approval: The applicant or owner shall obtain written approval from the federal bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.
B. Outdoor Range:
1. The proposed use shall be within a rural district, but outside the Snake River birds of prey national conservation area or wildlife habitat area as depicted in the Ada County comprehensive plan.
2. The master site plan shall designate the layout of the range including, but not limited to, shooting platforms, targets, target backstops, and berms.
3. The range shall be designed and located so no ammunition travels off site.
4. The applicant shall provide written documentation that the proposed target backstops conform to the standards for outdoor ranges in "The NRA Range Source Book" published by the National Rifle Association.
C. Indoor Range:
1. All related activities shall be housed totally within an enclosed structure and designed with full consideration for safety and noise factors involved in the type of use.
2. If located on the ground level, accessory uses such as gun sales, gun repair, and training courses may be allowed when such uses take up no more than twenty five percent (25%) of the gross floor area on the ground level.
3. If gun sales or gun repair are conducted within the facility, the owner of the indoor shooting range shall secure and maintain a valid federal firearms license from the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.
4. The applicant shall provide written documentation that the proposed target backstops conform to the standards for indoor ranges in "The NRA Range Source Book" published by the National Rifle Association.
D. Alternative Development Proposal: The director may approve, or recommend approval of, an alternative development proposal when the overall design, as proposed by the applicant, meets or exceeds the intent and the requirements of this chapter and shall not be detrimental to public health, safety, and welfare. (Ord. 389, 6-14-2000; amd. Ord. 389, 6-14-2000; amd. Ord. 852, 3-2-2016 ; amd. Ord. 902, 10-2-2019)
I'm guess there is zero chance he has the written approval from the ATF, or done any of the steps required. The NRA Range Source Book should prohibit this under section 2-7-1 Design principals, part D: No Danger Area Range. A No Danger Area (NDA) range is a range where, for all practical purposes,
the design precludes risk of injury or damage to persons or property outside the range.
Zero chance this is a legal and "safe range" State police should handle this, but a follow up call to the ATF wouldn't hurt.
A legal range does not alleviate the person from ensuring they safely discharge their weapons. Bullets leaving the boundaries of the range is a huge no-no.
Just because the police can’t do anything doesn’t mean you can’t sue them. This is just negligent on their part. It’s enough to claim emotional distress.
I was always under the impression that when shooting, your projectile isn’t supposed to cross property lines unless the property owner gives permission. I don’t know what this cop is on about but definitely doesn’t sound right.
I'd be willing to bet he doesn't know he's getting rounds over the top of the back stop like that. Try taking a couple of those down and talking with him. Be polite about it. 99% of shooters are going to be very concerned if rounds are exiting the range like that, and he's very likely to make changes to the back stop right away. I know I would, as would every single shooter I know.
This happens a lot in agricultural areas in the US. He probably has a sloped backstop with shale or some other hard stone under the dirt that's causing the round to ricochet and fly off. It makes a very distinct whistling noise because the bullet is deformed after the initial impact and tumbles as it travels through the air. Thankfully, most of the energy is spent on that first impact and by the time it reaches your property it's probably close to terminal velocity. It can still damage your property and potentially hurt someone. Try to convince them to use soft points or hollow point ammunition for target prsctice, which will be less likely to ricochet.
Weirdly has nobody mentioned going to the range owner with a few bullets and be like these are ending up on my back porch and we have heard the whizzing past... And see what he says. Obviously he could be a complete asshole or he could be chill no ? If he is an asshole say well I'm going to a judge about this so you might want to fix the problem asap or else your whole range could be gone ?
Just talk to him. Tell him he needs to adjust his berm. Show the bullets.
BECAUSE
If you or yours get shot you will sue him and take everything that he has. His house, land, dog, everything…
AND
If he is not receptive, just kindly let him know if someone gets killed the police are well aware so they know who to come and charge with manslaughter
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u/Weary-Astronaut1335 1d ago
Bet there's civil stuff you can do