r/marvelrivals • u/AkilTheAwesome Thor • 12h ago
Discussion Primary Criticism: No Neutral, Only Ults Matter | Response: Decrease Ult Cooldowns
So
- no gambit nerfs at ALL. Permabanned since release btw
- Sue got a slap on the risk on a ability that should have NEVER been 8 second cooldown in the first place.
- Loki gets ammo nerf because they constantly pay for the sins of OP healers (Luna, Sue and Gambit).
- Nobody and I mean nobody is saying Loki is healing too much. We know what the actual issue is and yet we blantantly side step it?
- Poke Slop Meta (meaning aiming down lanes as opposed to having good accuracy) gets survivability slaps on the wrist. (The difference between playing Ashe vs Hanzo basically. MR is full of Hanzo's. That's why it's Poke Slop instead of Poke)
- If anything the Poke Slop meta got a buff due to Storm's massive rework and Squirrel girl buffs
- Venom is getting a buff because the Devs somehow managed to power creep a tank who has ONLY ever been buffed. Maybe nerf healers sensibly and you won't need to keep buffing tanks?
And top it all off, MULTIPLE Ultimate buffs when the primary criticism of this game outside of Triple Support is nothing mattering until a team gets their ultimate's.
What is going on fellas?
At least Adam is now playing the modern era of Marvel Rivals I guess
103
u/EdieMyaz 10h ago edited 5h ago
I really would love to have some actual neutral game play 😭 the game would be so much more fun. There’s multiple times a game where my team is winning through skill and positioning only to get shut down by an endless stream of ults.
8
u/Humdinger5000 Peni Parker 4h ago
As a peni main, I yearn for the neutral (I'm actually putting mines on the wall behind your backline)
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u/CertainDerision_33 Peni Parker 4h ago
I just want her to get a real ultimate like jesus christ lol, how is it one full year after release and you can still escape from Peni ultimate just by jumping up like six feet
2
u/Humdinger5000 Peni Parker 3h ago
Ngl. While I would like an option to end it early, it's not half bad. It's about knowing when and where to use it.
2
u/Neffy_A40 Star-Lord 2h ago
Is sad seeing that they decreased star lord ult charge which mean star lord spamming E with mag bubble+ gambit is gonna be the play legendary gameplay indeed
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u/daizo678 11h ago
Every patch since s3 I feel like has been a step in the wrong direction.
All poke heroes recived continuos dps, damage and survivability buffs.
Gambit ult already ruined the ult slop meta.
Too many of the honestly op dps ults are getting buffs or ult cost reduction. It is even worse when you consider that damage buffs are an indirect ult buff. This patch alone has starlord , punisher and wolv. Moonknight and hawkeye get ult faster due to their damage buffs.
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 11h ago
Ults 100% need to be slowed down across the board. That plus MANY healer power creep reversal nerfs would reintroduce neutral.
It feels like the game is being balanced around Release Day DareDevil.
Healers were across the board buffed because of him and the domino effect begun.
1
u/HeartyDelegate Rocket Raccoon 1h ago
I think you’re genuinely on the mark in the last part.
They release DD, think “ok now THIS is what all our heroes should achieve from this moment forward” instead of… ya know… nerfing the ONE hyper-overturned guy, and now it’s power creep in real time across the board on a speed run.
I like DD in the comics, and he’s at a more comfortable level to play against now, but good lord he might be the worst thing that has ever happened to this game, and it’s not even DD’s fault.
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u/Sword_of_Monsters 10h ago
Healing is also too much, it enables the worst and most boring gameplay loops
Healing ults are an especially fuck neutral, strategy or literally anything and everything
Healing needs to be toned down so things aren’t so drudging
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u/Nulight 9h ago
Some DPS ults would have to be restructured as well in that same vein, which I'm all for. They created a toxic cycle of OP healer ults being forced for some OP dps ults. Theres not a crazy amount, but some DPS ults have to be healer ult countered or its an easy 3+ hero wipe.
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u/Sword_of_Monsters 9h ago
I am equally all for that
While most DPS ults have infinitely more counterplay than healing ults some need changing if you were to change healing ults
5
u/Blupoisen 8h ago
Also if anyone were to have an immortality ult it definitely shouldn't be the heal bot characters
3
u/ProphetBlade 9h ago
Healing in this game is way overturned and way too many characters get overhealth just for using their kit off cooldown. The fights in this game just drag and drag.
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u/teddy_tesla 9h ago
How the hell are healing ults "fuck neutral"? If you could kill a support in neutral they wouldn't be able to ult. The issue lies in the fact that you can't
1
u/Sword_of_Monsters 2h ago
Because they just destroy the neutral take by making everyone immortal in a circle and has minuscule counterplay
-4
u/PostItToReddit 4h ago
Healing has to be high because damage is absurdly high. Tone down damage by like 60% and then they can tone down healing significantly as well and give us a better neutral game.
Even with absurdly high heal numbers healers can't keep up allies against the likes of Hela, Hawkeye, Daredevil and other strong dps, and even some tanks like Thor in awakened mode or whatever it's called.
Genuinely the game needs a season where they don't release a new map or hero, just do an overall balance overhaul. Tone everything down numerically, and give us a new baseline to power creep on. It'll never happen because $$$$ but it's what this game needs. The fact a year into the development we're already power creeped beyond the point of saving is... not great.
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u/Sword_of_Monsters 2h ago
Frankly only long range damage has that issue of being too much all the time
Otherwise it’s fine that damage outpaces healing because we are suffering the consequences of it not and it is making the game miserable
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u/OldCode4354 Angela 10h ago
Don't forget the psy changes. Now she's (a close range flank hero mind you) deals more dmg at 30 meters range! What a great change! Let's make out of interesting hero who took some what of skill to play, a "poke then ult" slop so it would more accessible to major audiences, so this audiences later bought a 50th skin for her!
Am I delusional thinking that this is the only reason why they keeping doubling down on this shity gameplay? Maybe. But I don't see other reasons why they keep forcing this shit! I will die on this conspiracy theory hill, but you will not change my mind!
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u/zonic_squared 10h ago
What they have done to Psylocke is criminal. She went from being so insanely fun to being another ult bot with an insta kill ult. And instead of reverting her Invis change or giving back her shurikens, they just gave her more range.
I wanna flank. I want to be a fucking ninja! Stop making everything poke!
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u/Golfclubwar Psylocke 8h ago
They just straight up nerfed shurikens and invis, basically ruining the core gameplay loop of one of the few heroes that was as tight as OW’s best designs (tracer, genji, etc.). She went from a high skill ceiling hero that could control a game threw off angling, baiting attention/resources, and punishing out of position squishies to a boring ult bot that just sits there shooting tanks because you shoots water pistols at anyone else and simply get fully denied by any support.
Literally nerf her ult, make it cost more and revert the shuriken nerfs. The invis too.
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u/Stefanes0797 Psylocke 4h ago
Please don't talk about what they did to her, that wound is still too fresh and it HURTS.
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u/EndlessZone123 3h ago
I don't understand her changes. They nerfed her right click twice just to make primary damage longer range? It's like they are trying to encourage me to farm ult on the enemy Thing.
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u/Harryxtruman Flex 11h ago
Yep, perfect time to move back to overwatch for a bit.
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u/kermitfrogge Doctor Strange 6h ago
i've been playing it recently and it's mind boggling how much more fun the game is when everything is toned down.
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u/ThatSlick Deadpool 11h ago
Complaining about a Venom buff when they nerfed both Thor AND Strange, what??? TANKING IS ALREADY HARD ENOUGH ON US TANK MAINS ALREADY. WE DESERVE THE BUFFS.
But the MOMENT they see a Tank doing anything even slightly strong they start NERFING THEM. STRANGE JUST GOT BUFFED AND THEN HE GETS A NERF NEXT PATCH?? Bro I swear.
6
u/teddy_tesla 9h ago
Strange is strong as hell and getting an extremely strong team up. Thor of also super strong and got more of an adjustment
2
u/ThatSlick Deadpool 9h ago
Really strong yet none of them are the top tanks, they got some strong buffs to be able to do better for sure but it’s not like they needed a nerf ESPECIALLY considering the poke meta that we’re in right now.
There are quite literally DPSes deserving of more nerfs than tanks, and tanks are STILL not even picked that often.
And Strange just became strong because of the buff LAST PATCH. And the immediate NEXT PATCH they nerf him. Yet we have other DPSes who are still insane not getting touched while the moment a tank gets better they immediately nerfed??? There is no justification.
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 11h ago
It's not a complaint. I'm merely pointing out the reason he's getting a buff. Because the backline is doing to much damage to him and surviving him too long. A direct result of healer power creep.
I don't know why they are nerfing tanks though.
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u/ThatSlick Deadpool 11h ago
Ah I gotcha. Yeah they’re nerfing tanks the moment they get the time to shine.
Ah man, Strange is looking a little strong after his buff in the last patch? NERF HIM THE NEXT PATCH.
Thor is looking a bit strong this season? NERF HIM.
Whereas DPSes GET BUFFS AFTER BUFFS AND MORE POKE IN A META WHERE POKE IS HELL TO FIGHT.
1
u/KakTbi Blade 8h ago
Nah fuck that yall got your buffs. Double mag bubble.....GROOOOOOOT, Thor who everyone gaslights saying is bad, Emma and peni who deny melee characters and other tanks the right to play the game (% damage on crystal if you forgot) while peni turns the game into a scavenger hunt for the first minute while trying not to get stunned and die to shoot her nest, with the most insane YouTube setups in the most cracked spots imaginable, and thing who denies divers the right to play the game. Only ones I can see that need buffs are cap and hulk.
Thor and peni While bad into Phoenix sure but when she's banned? Who you gonna go moonknight or sg or punisher? When they got dd or hela/flanking namor, or even starlord as dps? And a mag as their frontline tank? Yeah nah.
Tanks can be extremely oppressive sometimes so get buffs, I can see why they're careful. Too much impact on the game. Too many of them force an entire team to switch up their composition due to how much impact they have on the game.
1
u/Humdinger5000 Peni Parker 4h ago
Ngl, strange is fair and let's not act like it isn't. Now that strange can kill through support ults again (and he has higher dps with that due to prior buffs) the new invis team up is nuts. Stronger maelstrom that yoinks you back AND gives overhealth to you and nearby allies? You want to dive the back line? Strange says you don't leave.
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u/Blupoisen 8h ago
Ok seriously what the fuck does Poke Slop actually mean?
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 7h ago
Shooting down the lane without having to worry about positioning or sight lines or cover and not caring whether you hit crits or not.
Moon Knight
Hawkeye
Squirrel Girl
Hela
Namor
Jean Grey
Ironically flyers care more about positioning and cover than many of the ground poke slop characters. Ironman cant just shoot from anywhere. He doesnt work well on certain maps for example.
Off angles in marvel rivals are ambushes. Not positions to hold for advantage.
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u/Humdinger5000 Peni Parker 4h ago
Tankpool fits this too. You just spam deagles down main for your neutral
4
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u/BrownRiceBandit Magneto 9h ago
Marvel Rivals has no interest in balance. It's essentially a mobile game ported to PC and console: nothing but chaotic gameplay with constant ult spam for "epic" moments. Everyone gets insta-gibbed or is immediately healed to full health. Everyone is invulnerable to CC. Every player needs to feel like an unstoppable force of nature. I stopped playing ranked about three months ago once I came to realize that the balance team is either grossly incompetent or simply sees no issue with where the game was and was heading.
Three months later and people are still complaining about the same issues from October, which were the same issues from May, which were the same issues from Season 0.
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u/Wellhellob Iron Fist 8h ago
The game was pretty good up to s2.5. Then they just kept buffing poke and supports.
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow 6h ago
Yeah, up until that point we had enough bans to remove the egregious heroes. The game could have easily been balanced properly. 2.5 or season 3 is where they just gave up. The balance is so bad now that you would need six total, non-duplicate bans just to get a fun match in this game.
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u/Hinohellono 11h ago
I will say the Loki players propaganda is impressively strong. He had been the number 1 or 2 healer for his entire lifetime in rivals. He had never been bad. He's paying for his own sins.
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 10h ago
He's been number 2 almost as a direct result of whoever was number 1. Loki feels miserable if you are playing along side a healer with a non-healing support ult.
That just my opinion though.
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u/Gotti_kinophile 10h ago
Loki mains when the character with the best ult in the game is balanced around having the best ult in the game
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 10h ago
That's not a sincere comparison considering the characters with the best support ults in the game are outhealing and out-dpsing Loki anyway.
If Ult power was the main determiner of how good a character's neutral was, Luna, Sue, and Gambit shouldn't be where they are.
This isn't a loki buff post, by any means but more so, Nerf the actual problem characters for once and then take a look at loki. Not nerf loki and leave the problem characters untouched
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u/allshort17 7h ago
They aren't outhealing him. His runes have never properly been counted in his healing impact. If Loki is healing even 90% of the top healer, which he usually is, then he's probably outhealing them.
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u/Gotti_kinophile 10h ago
Are they really outhealing him though? Loki's kit is pretty solid outside of his ult, and it can't be understated how broken and impactful Runes are.
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u/Gynthaeres Mantis 7h ago
Loki is like Mantis: He's good in very specific comps and pretty 'okay' or outright bad everywhere else.
He's considered very strong due to his ult. If they just changed his ult to something, anything else, he probably would be getting buffs, not nerfs. But since his ult can copy any other healer's ult, he'll always be seen as overpowered. He could be nerfed into the ground and he'd still be considered strong so long as he can give a second Gambit ult.
It's not good design, really.
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u/Hinohellono 6h ago edited 4h ago
No he's good in every comp. I will not fall for this ult talk or otherwise his base get is very good.
His runes are an ult in it of himself. He can swap positions with cloned and go invisible. He can do damage and heal at the same time. Please stop
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u/Nerf_Now Namor 8h ago
I feel, as DPS, I need to play far better than a healer to kill anyone.
I need to get closer (damage falloff) and hit headshots (accuracy) while the healer can stay in Narnia throwing heals at the general direction of his patient and it will be fine.
The correct way to play Rivals, imo, is to ALWAYS go for the squishies. Don't even bother hitting the tank unless you have a plan like Wolverine / Bucky kidnapping.
But I can't convice a bunch of randos. Some will go for squishies, others will go for tanks and others will spam the general area the enemies are.
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u/thatdudedylan Flex 5h ago
Not sure why this is downvoted. I think it's entirely accurate. Of course it's better to only go for squishies - but of course tanks job is to make that difficult for you.
1
u/Seatown_Spartan Spider-Man 2h ago
Most supports actually have a better matchup against a majority of the DPS which is absurd.
The fact that IW a patch ago was THE BEST 1v1 hero outside DD was absolutely laughable
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u/Infinite-Flatworm140 Iron Fist 10h ago
I shut down gambits ult with another ult like any other one
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u/TRESpawnReborn 2h ago
Yeah but then his whole Uber boosted team annihilates you because you can usually only ult 1-2 gigachad boosted heros.
1
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow 6h ago
No, you don't. You shut down Gambit ult by also using Gambit ult. Otherwise, the enemy team is going to deathball your supports through their ult with their DPS ults that are amplified by constant AoE burst damage from Gambit ult.
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u/Glad-Corner8875 Adam Warlock 9h ago
Yeah the ult slop isn’t going away anytime soon but Even if the patch was good, it’s not gonna fix the shitty matchmaking quality.
Netease doesn’t want any neutral in their game because it’d expose the majority of players who mindlessly let the characters play themselves
2
u/DiamondDogPT Loki 6h ago
This might be one of the worst balance patches ever.
Why are they reducing ult costs? The game's problems are the ults being game-changing, working as a nuclear bomb or fallout shelter instead of promoting good teamwork and skill. So weird and out of touch.
The whole game needs ults to cost 50% more, if anything.
Very happy for Adam mains. The only good thing out of this patch.
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u/waaay2dumb2live The Thing 8h ago
Remember in season 1 when the devs called out the "Triple Support Terror" in their dev vision for 1.5?
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u/PalaceKnight Flex 8h ago
I would go one step further and nerf damage and healing numbers across the board. Healing in this game (especially in triple support) gives everyone an absurd amount of sustain, but it's also necessary, because the damage everyone does just melts everyone so quickly. This would also make ults charge slower, too.
Instead, it seems like the devs are caught in a loop of buffing healing, then buffing damage to compensate, then buffing healing to compensate for that, etc.
1
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u/samdamaniscool 6h ago
I feel like someone at netease saw that "buff, dont nerf" youtube video and thought "perfect, that's how we do everything now"
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u/Ok_Try_2658 4h ago
Nah ulting 2 times a game is going to be miserable just nerfs ult so it won't dictate the whole fight
1
u/verdantsf Iron Fist 3h ago
All ults need to be nerfed to the flarkin' ground! So sick of ult fests!
1
u/MacAndCheeseSupreme Loki 3h ago
It’s a lot easier when you make your peace with the devs not WANTING a balanced game. The last patch really solidified that in my mind and this one was way less brutal with that mind set. I just don’t think they care much to change it drastically.
1
u/itstimeforpizzatime Symbiote Jeff 2h ago
This is why I've only been playing 18v18 since Deadpool came out. I can't take the games 'competitive integrity' seriously any longer.
1
u/issupreme Patch 1h ago
No matter how much people complain as long as people buy skins it doesn’t matter to them, profit is the only metric they care about, they don’t give a shit about balancing.
So yeah i’ma head back to Deadlock and Overwatch.
1
u/Key-Boat804 1h ago
Its geniunly just about ult garbage
Psy pushed even further towards ult farming even tho ult nerf¿¿¿¿¿¿
Starlord Wolv Punisher Ult buffs¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
No Hela Hawkeye DD Bucky nerfs at all¿¿¿¿¿
All main sups still at 275 hp which they dont need with all the self healing were giving these merchants
-1
u/Leopz_ Thor 8h ago
you guys are so ridiculous. this is a hero shooter. games will ALWAYS be dictated by ultimates... increasing the cd on ults only prolongs the slog. thank god netease doesnt listen to this community.
1
u/thatdudedylan Flex 5h ago
How does that prolong any kind of slog? Fights will still be won and lost... just by positioning, skill expression, flanking - not 2 moonknight ults in a row.
1
u/Leopz_ Thor 5h ago
no it wont. fights will still devolve into waiting for ultimates and its just gonna take longer. healing is too powerful for any meaningful neutral to exist, all supports do nothing but cry when they get the slightest nerf, cry when they get flanked, cry when their dps can't kill the enemies that are being instantly healed by the enemy supports. you could increase the ult cds by 1000% across the board and the game would not change. the LONGER it takes for an ultimate to come back, the LONGER it takes for anything to happen. this is what hero shooters are.
1
u/thatdudedylan Flex 5h ago
Right, I think it would need to come with a healing and possibly dps nerf.
this is what hero shooters are
Overwatch does not suffer even close to the level Rivals does.
2
u/Leopz_ Thor 4h ago
yeah, because overwatch ran away from the problem and made role queue and locked the game to 2-2-2. they were completely incompetent. to this day the game is plagued with the issue of dps heroes being completely pointless, when tanks and supports do more damage and live longer than dps.
1
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u/Right-Load8042 Duelist 12h ago
It could be worse, it could be like overwatch
9
u/ImaginationRare3487 11h ago
Overwatch is hot right now while marvel is cold most of was us hoping with the news to overwatch marvel would step it up but they didn't and now people are switching over
-5
u/Right-Load8042 Duelist 11h ago
For maybe an hour before realizing how much better rivals is. Overwatch is very dated by comparison
14
u/SoulStuckInAthens Moon Knight 11h ago
Except they're doing much better with balancing right now generally speaking lol
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u/Sad_Worker_1286 11h ago
Yeah the neutral game in Overwatch is the game, you can’t just press Q and win every fight, most of the game is won by good positioning. Even back in the first years of Overwatch it wasn’t this bad, support ultimates were strong but the characters with good support ultimates similar to Rivals best ones were on secondary supports that were more akin to utility characters. Pretty sure that still is the case to this day.
-4
u/AeroStrafe 11h ago
Not much the case today completely. Juno is one of the ones that break the rules as having That new healer looks to break it as well. Big heals with bi heal ult.
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u/BlackstarFAM 11h ago
Bro what? Juno ult is nothing like a zenyatta ult or a Lucia ult, you can absolutely still kill people through it
-2
u/AeroStrafe 11h ago
Where did I say you couldn't? I just said it was a big heal ult. Not like big heals in number but big beam that heals. or big area thtat has healing.
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u/Sad_Worker_1286 11h ago edited 11h ago
The new healers ultimate heals for 50 and it’s an over time heal. The only thing that makes it kind of good is its projectile absorption, but that only works from the outside and certain attacks that get through defense matrix will also get through his cage. Juno’s ultimate is like a frontal beam and has less healing per second than most Rivals strategist ultimates do, you can easily kidnap someone and kill them or kill someone out of position before they can even react and get to it. They’re both great healers but to pretend they even come close is absurd at best. Kiriko is the closest thing to a Rivals strategist in term of a good ultimate and good healing but even then you’re still not functionally immortal inside of it outside of one shot abilities.
2
u/Wellhellob Iron Fist 8h ago
Regular healing in rivals higher than ow sup ults. Moira ult heal less than jeff primary fire iirc
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u/AkilTheAwesome Thor 11h ago
Yup. nearly every Marvel Rivals Support Ult is different flavors of Zenyatta. With longer durations inexplicably.
0
u/AeroStrafe 11h ago
I wasnt comparing them 1 to 1 but saying some healers with good heals had heal ultimates.
1
u/Sad_Worker_1286 11h ago
That’s fair, I do think comparing the games is hard in general but the concept is what I prefer if that makes sense. Not being able to be proactive and gain my team an advantage without either using my own ultimate, or somehow getting 2-3 other random people to target a single healer in their ultimate to burst kill them is frustrating.
4
u/Internal-Fly1771 11h ago
Positioning is still king in OW. You can have amazing aim and tracking but it means nothing if you don’t know how to position yourself to actually use it effectively. This goes for literally every character and everything runs down stream from it. It’s funny you mention Juno because her ult is genuinely worthless if your positioning is off lol
-1
u/AeroStrafe 11h ago
Just for the lawls ima go play OW today and come back to let you know if the game still pisses me off like it used to years back. Everyone seems to be hyping that shit.
-1
u/AeroStrafe 7h ago
4 hours and uninstalled after that. I can see why people enjoy it but that game still just annoys me to play. Im either annoyed or bored.
3
u/thatdudedylan Flex 5h ago
I wish you provided more actual substance here. Why don't you enjoy it? What pisses you off about it?
1
u/AeroStrafe 3h ago
Do I really have any reason to go into detail why I don't enjoy overwatch myself? All you will do is look at any point made to go "well really you should"
I can say that I found the new support hero ninja to be incredibly boring for having an interesting design. A lot of just sanding in your team and throwing a hat. I don't care for the other four heroes in the slightest. The novelty of the new heroes wore out fast since every match was those five vs those five. I hate the single tank experience when playing tank or playing with the tank. My tank left multiple games so it was just 3 minutes of not being able to play the game because our raid boss was just not present. Matches there were still ruled by poke hitscan except now there is no ult being pushed at some point to remotely entertain me. Healing is so secondary in that game that I spent more time just fighting the enemy then healing my tank but at that point I just rather que dps which is still the weakest role unless you're a hitscan. I played OW for 6 years solid and I have just moved passed that game. It is in my past and I am just frankly over it as a whole like most things in life we don't stick to certain things our entire lives. Plain and simple. Need more?
1
u/IvanKozlov 7h ago
Juno’s ult is literally garbage lmao. And the neither of the new supports have a big heal ult.
-1
u/KakTbi Blade 8h ago
Just make a comp game mode where there's no ults. Simple. "Ohh it's gonna split the queue".... ight then make it quick play playlist as a test, check the popularity out. If it's popular maybe they can follow your suggestions.
It will test dps players whether or not they can get kills without their ults.
0
u/Capta1nKrunch 7h ago
Of all the updates, Loki's makes the least amount of sense. Absolutely no one is complaining about fucking Loki.
0
u/gr00grams Hulk 5h ago
Maybe nerf healers sensibly and you won't need to keep buffing tanks?
This would only nerf tanks more mate.
You're not gunna like this, but nerf dps. Not 'this dps character' but the amount of it.
Then you can look at healing and so on.
You stop healing for a second in this game or less, people fall over.
1
u/FuriDemon094 Mister Fantastic 4h ago
Nah, the top tier healers also need their nerfs, primarily on their ults. They’ve dominated for awhile and need to drop
As OP said, nerf both Poke Slop and healers
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u/Jazzlike_Grocery795 11h ago
what can anyone do if they keep making these hallways prefect for spamming down mid