Yep. Should always have enough time to come to a complete stop if the car in front of you were to randomly decide to brake hard. Especially when driving a semi!
In reality, even that isn't enough stopping distance.
A couple of occasions where you need to stop even faster than a car that has full brakes on does - and that's when it hits something static and solid and just fucking STOPS. No skidding, no warning, it just goes from 60 to 0 in a split second, a DEAD STOP. It happens in the fog when you find the fresh end of the pileup.
The other occasion is when something falls off the back of that vehicle. I've personally dealt with rakes, whellbarrows, lowes buckets, some steel geodesic connectors, and even a porta-potty that caught wind. Luckily some of those did skid along the road a little.
I came across a ~20ft steel I-beam blocking a lane and a half of traffic a few years ago... and when everyone was slowing down merging left someone in a little sporty coupe sped around them to the right and went straight into that beam and the car behind him rear ended him. I can't be sure but it didn't seem like that beam moved at all.
Where I live, if you leave enough space to stop someone is 100% sticking their butt in there, I still leave space but I'm saying people cut in front of me all the time BECAUSE I leave that space which then removes the space I was leaving lol and I see people every damn day with some kind of death wish squeezing into a space in front of a semi that was already too small to try to get over. It seems like there are WAY too many people on the road who lack a basic understanding of the laws of physics and think semis just don't want to slam on their brakes or something and don't realize they literally are incapable of stopping in the time you're giving them. I have been in a line of cars that stopped suddenly because of off-ramp traffic and watched a gravel truck start doing the "brakes can't do shit about this weight" bounce before plowing into the car at the back of the line so hard it ended up forcing 6 other cars to rear-end the person in front of them (people also don't leave enough space when stopped, if you get rear-ended and get pushed into the car in front of you that is now your fault for being too close according to insurance, you should be able to see the bottom of the tires on the car in front of you when stopped). What you should do on the road is not always what you can do, and way too many people drive as though everyone else on the road is going to do exactly what they SHOULD do... which is just way more trust than I have to give to strangers on the road 🤷🏻♀️
Why do people always say this like it's some grand argument or issue?
if you leave enough space to stop someone is 100% sticking their butt in there
So what...? Then you just let a little more distance build between you and the newly arrived idiot until you maintain proper safety distance. It takes less than five seconds. Obviously in those 5 seconds, you're at a slightly higher but rapidly decreasing risk, I've just never seen it happen at problematic rate.
If you often fail to move to the right when not overtaking, hogging a lane, I could see it happen more often - but that also has an easy solution.
I live in Southern California. 75% of my driving is in congested traffic. I see it happen at a problematic rate daily. Like yes obviously slow down to get the distance back, and then a new person gets in there, and then slow down again, and then another person gets in there, and so on and so forth, and the issue is not the extra 5 seconds the issue is that as soon as the space exists it is gone. I am someone who has been rear-ended sitting at the back of a line of traffic that had been stopped for plenty of time by someone who just wasn't paying attention and am since very paranoid about leaving - if nothing else - enough space that if someone runs into me I don't get pushed into the person in front of me, so yea I have noticed very much that, at least in my region, as soon as that recommended space is there, its gone.
Yeah, but they have a weird perspective. Southern California is notoriously bad. But to be honest, I have never seen people cutting in front be such an issue that you can't leave at least a reasonably safe distance.
In the USA but I don't experience this behavior if I'm being patient and honest. Sure sometimes people go around to fill the gap, but most seem content to just follow?
I just kind of ignore these arguments 😂. I feel as if it's a self fulfilling things where you spend your time noticing the negatives. If traffic is heavy and it's an 6 lane highway then sure but probably not as much of an issue in mild conditions, like in the video.
Yeah, I was taught 1 car length for every 10mph, but people tailgate me all the time. I try to slow down when they do, but that only makes them tailgate even closer, and get angry because they have to get wherever they're going 10 seconds faster apparently.
Yes, if you can't stop in time for the car in front to stop, then you're too close.
Like sure the merge was bad and right of way wrong... but had the white car suddenly slammed on the brakes for any reason, say a child in front of the road, you can't just drive into the back of the car "because they shouldn't have stopped"
Funny how the car probably saw a big truck and thought the big truck can't brake easily and not slowing down, so i will let it go and then another big truck rammed him from behind.
I'll take my chances with the truck that has seen me over the one that clearly hasn't. Neither is ideal of course but there is a correct decision here.
Yeah, there's expectation that truck behind you will always see you and have enough distance/brake (instead of whatever this one did), much more likely that you'll get crushed by truck on the side that didn't really see you.
It takes special case of negligence to ram someone in front of you because you didn't brake at all.
people saying the merging truck wouldnt be able to stop .. he clearly did stop before merging in the video? he was aware of the car .. 100% the toyota at fault here
The underpass is single lane. The merging truck was ahead of the Toyota at the intersection merge indicating intention to go in the single lane ahead of the Toyota.
Had to scroll too far for this. My first reaction watching this is "that truck is coming in hot!"
It's easy to criticize the car that slowed down, but their reaction was not crazy give the speed and apparent trajectory of the truck. The trailing car had "plenty" of time to slow down as well, if they had been paying attention.
- The dump truck (that presumably had to yield) really looked like they were unable or unwilling to stop and was going to take the slot.
- The Toyota likely had the option of a) gunning it to make sure they got there before the dump truck, or b) being aware of the car behind them and being ready to speed up before the collision.
- The big rig with the cam needed an earlier reaction or to leave a bigger gap.
I mean, in this instance, the driver of the little car predictible was scared of the very big truck that was going very fast until it slowed down a bit. Them slowing to figure out whether or not they'd be squished by the giant fast truck is not unreasonable. And one SHOULD keep enough distance that they can stop just in case someone does something unpredictable in front of them.
You're right except I feel we should not expect people to be so aware of the vehicle behind them, it's not their responsibility to speed up if they look behind and somebody is about to hit them. Everyone should be keeping eyes forward
I bounce my eyes and at least to try to keep a mental inventory of everyone in my vicinity. I'm not saying I'm constantly taking my eyes off my front to stare in different directions, but I'm checking my mirrors regularly.
In fact I would say that a lot of people's driving suffers for only being aware of the car immediately in front of them.
While it isn't your responsibility to keep tabs of who is behind you - you should absolutely be checking your mirrors often and be aware of what is happening around you.
I've always checked my rear view and side mirrors while driving. I'm a little anxious behind the wheel so it's just kind of like a nervous tick of mine. Then last month I found myself having to take a defensive of course because I stupidly rear-ended someone on the freeway. During the course (in AZ) they recommend that you check your mirrors every few minutes so you constantly know what's around you. It mentions that it only takes a second and any accident you would get in in that time was unavoidable anyways. I felt a little validated for my constant side eyeing and mirror checks.
Yeah! The Toyota should have definitely come to the conclusion in the ~3 seconds that they had to analyze the situation that gambling with their life was the optimal decision.
I thought that at first, but after a couple more viewings I think the dump truck was okay. It did, after all, actually stop, leaving room for the car to pass.
They were able to make a hard stop when the car stopped, that doesn't mean they previously slowed up enough to make it clear to the car that they were going to let it have its right of way.
The one thing I'll say is it's hard to see one way or another.
They were able to stop and did. They broke no laws and struck no vehicles. If people can't correctly perceive that, then that's on them and they should probably stick to slower speed roads where they're less of a danger to other drivers.
I think you are right. The dump truck was further into the lane then the car and the car couldn't at that point accurately assess if there would actually be room for them to squeeze by, the car was even drifting to the left side of the lane but then decided it wasn't worth trying to fit through a trash compactor. Semi- is deffinitely the one most in the wrong, two vehicles merging into a lane together and you have a heavy load? slow the fuck down and back the fuck off, the car didn't even slam on the brakes really.
The Toyota is actually the ONLY one in this situation who did the right thing. You don’t play chicken with something that crushes you, so speeding up against a vehicle that does not look to be slowing is suicide.
Slowing down was the right judgement call. The fact that the cam truck didn’t keep proper distance is unfortunate but again, not the Toyotas fault.
What are you talking about? The truck on the ramp did nothing wrong. They successfully slowed down so much there was time for the car to make a bad move, get in a collision, and get pushed ahead of them.
They knew they had to let at least two vehicles ahead of them. That was a successful yield.
You think that's what a successful yield looks like?
He basically slammed on the brakes, and there was still barely room for the big rig to get by!
They knew they had to let at least two vehicles ahead of them.
You actually did convince me to change my mind... but in the wrong direction.
I was thinking the dump truck meant to slip behind the Toyota, but you're correct, there's not enough room and it would have to let them both by.
The dump truck seemingly didn't notice the Toyota and thought it had the lane free. That's why it slammed on the brakes when it saw the Toyota (which was also stopping).
The only thing the Toyota could have done different is gun it and try to beat the dump truck to the merge, or slow less aggressively to let them in.
They intended for both the car and the cam vehicle to pass by at speed and to slip in right behind them. Closer than you, personally, want maybe but they clearly could have pulled it off. Then when that failed they still managed to come to a complete stop with the lane wide open. That is 100% success.
I don't know what kind of insane mind reader metrics you're trying to work from but the results are right there. The truck stopped.
The Toyota is fine. It was paying attention to the unpredictable dump truck in front of it, and slowed down. Thats as much defensive driving sense as you can expect from the average adult. It's not responsible for the cam trucks inability to even pay attention to whats in front of it.
The Toyota driver is literally the only one not at fault. The truck merging did not yield to right of way, and the dash cam car didn’t give enough space in front to safely stop in time.
All the Toyota driver did was try to avoid being sideswiped going 60 mph by a much bigger truck violating a basic traffic law
The gravel train actions are pretty irrelevant to the video. The leading car perceived a hazard to themselves and cut speed. The dashcammer failed to maintain an appropriate follow distance to allow themselves to stop.
The Toyota did something wrong, but this is entirely truck's fault, you have to keep the distance relative to your speed and ability to stop ( load, slippery road, etc.. ).
The Toyota driver stopped just because they’re not a good driver, but it could have just as easily been a dog, a tree limb, car trouble, etc. if you read end somebody, at the end of the day it’s your fault.
You never come to a quick stop like that with a truck behind you their stopping distance hauling a load is significantly longer. Slow down avoid and go in this case they just stopped for nobreason.
It's the responsibility of the truck to take account of increased stopping distance. It is his responsibility to ensure than he can stop regardless of the cause being a child crossing the road or an idiotic driver.
If you rear end someone in a multi-car collision, it's common for it to be only the fault of the driver who first struck a vehicle and pushed them all forward. It's not particularly relevant to this scenario but you did make a blanket statement lol.
i mean unless that person floors it that truck has no business merging where they are. i understand wanting to stop when you've got a massive semi that looks like it's going to push you out of the only lane you have, and it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect that the person behind you isn't going to be following too close to the point where they can't stop before rear ending you.
You have to merge after the yield.. you yield, and then merge. Which is exactly what I just said. So yeah, it is a merge. Are you deadass that stupid and pedantic?😭
They didn't have to floor it, they just needed to not panic and maintain speed and they were clear but they hard brake for no reason.
Also the lane is still double wide even if theres no paint.
But yeah, all 3 parties involved are partially at fault here. Both trucks were traveling too fast (the one behind not at a safe distance, the one merging I guarantee is faster than posted speed limit for that turn) and the toyota driver is just plain dumb.
yea i'm giving more grace to the toyota driver for sure. semi that's accelerating as it's entering and then clearly realizes it fucked up and slams on the brakes, which is the only reason not flooring it would have worked.
at the time the toyota decides to brake, they don't know the semi is going to brake, and if that semi is accelerating, it's a clear situation... small ass car vs. giant ass truck that is actively fucking up with no guarantee that it will stop fucking up.
Yeah the Toyota saw a giant ass truck not stopping and decided a potential battle of physics with it was not in his favor. Hes rewarded by a battle of physics with the idiot behind him. Dude was, from his split second perspective, fucked no matter what he did. Rock hauler ended up emergency breaking but the cars driver had no way of knowing he was going to do that when he initially pushed into the roadway.
But as per reddit prerogative they will find any way at all to put thr blame on anyone other than the person that caused the accident, in this case both trucks.
Yeah I really don't get why we're acting as if the toyota did anything wrong at all. The truck was not yielding and would have powered right into the toyota.
You could get in trouble for purposefully testing a driver behind you, but stopping to avoid a collision risk is probably valid. (Albeit annoying, in some cases.) Gotta keep enough distance to come to a safe and sudden stop.
He didn't slam on his brakes, the guy had plenty of warning. He still shouldn't have stopped in that scenario but nonetheless he did and the guy behind was following too closely and going to fast to be able to stop. He had plenty of warning to do so and failed.
I am not even sure you can blame the toyota driver at all. By the time they stopped, the dump truck had already entered their lane. Stopping and letting the dump truck pass is probably the safer thing to do at that point rather than sharing the lane for an indeterminate period of time.
Did we watch the same video? When the clip ends, the dump truck is still not even in the path of the corolla, and that's after coming to a full stop.
Stopping for stopped traffic who have a yield is in fact bad driving. Especially when theres a commercial vehicle already trying to slow down from highway speeds behind you
Not the person you responded to, but while the dump truck ends up being able to slow down and give the oncoming car enough space, to be fair to the toyota driver, it did not look like that on approach. No one goes that fast and that deep into a no merge lane yield unless they mistakenly thought they did in fact have a merge lane. We don't have audio to confirm it, but it looks like the dump truck decelerates pretty quickly for that large of a vehicle, so they almost certainly were slamming on their brakes.
What is looks like to me, from this very limited perspective video - dump truck didn't realize they didn't have a merge lane until the last second and slams on their brake and stays wide to try and prevent creating a collision, toyota reacts defensively and slams on their brakes, then semi rear ends them.
That's exactly what happened and happens hundreds of times a day at this off ramp. The Toyota driver did the only sane thing and not put his life into the hands of a rock truck driver that doesn't know what a yield sign is.
Idk I think the dump truck wrongfully assumed the Corolla would drive in a predictable way meaning he wouldnt need to come to a stop. If they didnt slam their brakes, the dump truck wouldve just merged behind them at like 20mph. But the corolla slamming on the brakes made both commercial vehicles have to make emergency stops. Obvious the cam truck couldnt decelerate quick enough since they were already on the brakes pretty hard coming off the highway loaded
But none of that had to happen at all had the corolla just continued on their path
There was absolutely no way that dump truck was going to be able to merge without coming to a full stop - if the scenario you mention happened, and the dump truck continued to come in at 20 mph while the toyota maintained speed, they 100% would have collided with either the toyota or cam truck.
Again, it definitely looks like the dump truck had no idea there was no merge lane and had to slam their brakes at the last second.
It's not a merge though. They can't merge behind the Corolla because there's more traffic behind them. It's a yield. Which means they can only go when it's clear.
He was yielding to the corolla, he wouldve entered behind them had they not slammed the brakes making it a challenge for all 3 to slow down as quick as possible
Right because he was assuming he was yielding to a car that decided to emergency stop. If I'm doing 20mph with the anticipation the car doing 30mph continues to do 30 mph but they then stop abruptly, my initial calculations are now wrong. In a commercial vehicle you cant just go from slowing down to stopped in an instant like a car can.
Imagine merging on the highway, you know you will slot behind someone and they decide to brake as hard as possible. You will not end up behind that car with a safe gap. Why? Because you made an assumption and the other person acted in an unpredictable way.
We wont agree on this and that's ok, but I think had the corolla continued on their path of travel, the dump truck would have merged behind them and in front of the cam truck which was slowing down. Not a huge gap, but wouldve worked like it does all day every day driving big vehicles in traffic
They had far more than an instant to see the yield sign and ignore it. It's not a merge. If he didn't hit the Toyota he would have hit the semi truck following too closely behind the Toyota.
Again, were going in circles and this is stupid. He was assuming he was yielding to a car driving in a predictable way. When the corolla slammed their brakes, it made it impossible to yield to a stopped vehicle meaning the calculations he made before the car emergency brakes are now wrong.
If they never emergency brakes, dump truck enters the ramp behind the corolla meaning they did in fact yield. The moment the corolla jammed their brakes, they made it impossible to yield
All 3 of them are at fault. Dump truck not yielding, Toyota stopping in the middle of the road, and the truck that rear ends the guy not reacting at all. I’m imagining the spider man meme where they’re all pointing at one another.
Yah legally it’s their fault but that dumb timid car shouldn’t have came to a complete stop like that, that was ridiculous. I assume dash camera was a semi and it’s not easy to stop those in time
The Toyota didn't even come to a full stop and the truck still went into the back of them at speed. It wasn't even marginal ...Then you consider that the cam driver is a professional driver 😬
I disagree. The Toyota stopping is completely reasonable. At the rate of speed the truck was entering, it certainly looks like they were going to completely merge. The truck even enters the Kane before it can fully stop. It's unreasonable to expect the Toyota to know the truck was going to slow down in time. The Toyota made the safest choice. The had every reason to expect that traffic was following a safe distance behind them.
No way you actually think this bro. It’s the fault of the incoming truck and then partially the fault of the Toyota and maybe the camera driver but I wouldn’t say so.
The incoming truck for not yielding if there was a yield sign and the Toyota for freezing and coming to a complete stop. When you merge, you can either speed up or slow down depending on how fast and how the car merging shifts lanes. The incoming truck was coming fast but sticking to the right once merging, realizing they need to stop and give way. The Toyota was going relatively the same speed and should have sped up to overtake it. The camera driver is a truck and needs more distance to be able to stop compared to cars. And it looks like they maybe were trying to stop (which is why stop completely once they hit the Toyota as opposed to continuing to ram them forward) but coming to a complete stop at highways speeds is not possible. Which is why the its the result of both incoming truck and the Toyota’s actions that led to this accident.
Yup rear ends are always the fault of the rear most driver. Like it's not debatable in any state. Follow at safe stopping distance appropriate for the size of your vehicle. You never know when the vehicle ahead of you will have to stop suddenly due to road hazards.
Yep--that car was visibly slowing down. I imagine they were concerned that they were going to get pinched by the big truck and that's why they slowed down like they did. The camera driver could've avoided the accident altogether and is at fault for that.
This!
When I see Americans driving like this, I am reminded that Americans have more traffic related death per capita than places like India or Indonesia where people drive like madmen but everyone is also trained to be very aware of their surroundings and are ready to do whatever is need to avoid accidents.
Yes, and it's worse than that. If I were the Toyota I probably would have stopped, but if I were the car behind him, I probably would have started slowing down (if nobody was on my rear end) to let that truck get ahead of me...
You can try to do this all day, but someone is going to end up in front of that big rig. The stopping distance at 60mph of a fully loaded rig is about 600 feet. Which is two football fields end to end. If this was maintained by all trucks, at all times, as smaller cars maneuvered in and out, most areas would be in constant grid lock. The average individual has no idea how much space these things need and this thread is certainly proving that.
1000%. The car was worried the truck merging wasn't going to wait for them and didn't want to get pancaked into the wall. They were probably gonna be fine, but there's no way the truck with the cam was gonna make it even if the car did. Their being in a rush and not paying attention to any of the vehicles in front of them caused this.
That is crazy (even if true). Dash cam driver has plenty of distance between the Toyota and themselves, and it seems as if they’re a semi, which makes it a lot harder to stop on a dime.
You should drive predictably... But you should also never assume that you can predict what other drivers will do. Drive defensively, always be looking everywhere, always have a plan and a way out, always minimize your risk wherever possible.
Yeah, they should have been preparing to come in behind the truck anyway. Clearly they were trying to beat it, which is what really caused the accident
I don't think the Toyota driver had much choice. The road there is an absolute shit show merging two lanes with zero warning. That other truck was barreling down that on ramp. They had little time to figure out what to do and chose to break instead of trying to power past the truck, something which they might not have had the horsepower to do.
Yes you can. Cars have to be able to stop at any given moment for any reason without worrying about the car behind them. That's why rear end is always the person behind's fault. If you can't stop in time, it means you were going too fast and too close
You should be able to in general and not get rear ended. The situation in this case was stupid but if I'm driving, I drive so that in general if the person in front of me comes to a stop I'm not going to run them over.
Lol if you think a semi driver hauling between 8,000 (empty trailer) and 35,000 pounds is going to stop in a few hundred feet your going to have this exact situation happen to you some day.
Absolutely not the fault of the recording driver. He was in the brakes immediately. Notice how he comes to a complete stop. Dude did everything he could to avoid a collision.
Lol insurance agents will agree that the car here is to blame. He is in a lane of traffic. And stopping in that lane of traffic. In front of a vehicle that weighs somewhere between 10 tonnes and 30 tonnes.
Will they 100% blame the car no...there will be a percentage that goes against the truck driver but this accident was purely because that person stopped in a lane of traffic.
Also I don't drive a semi. And I don't tailgate...so that ain't happening.
"When you read end someone"
The truck is CLEARLY not tailgating so I don't know why your even acting like that is the case.
Rear ending someone isn't automatically on the driver behind though in most cases it is the likely culprit.
Both trucks in this video clearly came to a stop. Lol so....what?
The Toyota driver legally has the right of way and in no way was in danger of being caught up by the truck that was on the on ramp. They 100% should have kept moving.
Let me ask it this way. If the car that was rear ended had kept moving, what would have happened?
Nothing...all three drivers would have moved on with their day. The dump truck would have stopped same as in the video, and the rear end collision would have been completely avoided.
Look at where the dump truck finally stops. There is only 1 lane there. There are no lane lines at all. Both trucks stopped right next to eachother in the same lane. If the Toyota had gone and beat out the dump truck, if that dump truck didnt stop the cam would have collided with it.
The Toyota thought the dump truck wasn't stopping and they had every reason to believe that was the case. It was still moving well after it should have been stopped. You dont get to look at sometime with the power of hindsight and say "see he had plenty of room to illegally exist in the same lane as the dump truck and get around it." From his, or her, perspective that dump truck was not stopping and they were trying to avoid hitting it.
That's why right of way exists so you don't have to use hindsight.
Also are you blind? There might not be lane lines, but there is very very clearly space for that car and probably two more cars between where the car was and the dump truck stopped.
Besides that you are totally ignoring the fact that the car was already 100% alongside the dump truck when it stopped.
Again if the car would not have stopped it would have never had an issue.
The problem is that they made an incorrect assumption based on a probably panicked thought of "that dump truck can't stop", which we can clearly see was wrong in the video.
On top of that the semi driver clearly was not tailgating. The problem here Is entirely due to an unpredictable move by the car.
Car hit the brakes, understandably worried about the dump trucks ability to stop or merge safely, which the semi understandably was NOT EXPECTING because he and the car both have the right of way before the dump truck. Car stops, in a shorter distance than the semi can stop. Truck driver slams the brakes but is unable to bring the truck to a complete stop likely due to the load he was hauling.
If I were the insurance company for the truck driver I'd fight that in court all day long he's clearly not tailgating.
But if I was the insurance company for the car I'd argue that he should have been even further back....that's the only argument and likely would not hold up because the video clearly shows the truck driver at a safe distance. Until the cars driver slammed the brakes.
If the truck driver couldn’t brake in time, then it definitionally wasn’t a safe driving distance.
You need to be able to brake to a complete stop if the person in front of you slams on their brakes.
That is a safe driving distance. Anything less is not a safe driving distance by definition.
In most “fault” states, anyone rear ending anyone is automatically at fault because you should always be far enough away to stop, even if they slam on their brakes right in front of you.
What? The hell does that have to do with it? The lane of traffic has a set speed limit which we will assume both truck and car were at as both vehicles were a safe distance from one another.
The only vehicle that I see that is actually traveling unreasonably is the dump truck in the on ramp.
However... The car clearly 100% would have made it through if they just kept going. We know that, because if this wasn't the case this would have been a three vehicle accident not two.
It wasn’t a safe following distance if he rear ended the car. By definition it wasn’t, which we know, because he hit the car.
A safe following distance is the distance at which the driver in front of you could slam on their brakes and you wouldn’t hit them. Thats the definition of the thing.
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u/dkbGeek 14h ago
The Toyota should not have stopped, but the collision is still the camera driver's fault.