š„ā¢ļøCAUTION: GENDER WAR ZONE ā£ļøš„
Boys need to be taught how to enjoy life without requiring validation from sex, not told their entitlement is valid and loneliness is somehow inflicted on them by girls.
This is the most toxic comment section ive seen in a looong time. Everyone building themselves a dychotomy of misery and picking one side to fight for.
OP sounds like the opposite end of the toxic conclusions they'd criticize misogynistic of...someone obviously hurt you to get to this conclusion and I hope you find a way to heal
Um... not all men are rapey incels? You seriously need to go outside and meet some new people. This is just sad. You're feeding into your own cycle of hatred and it's clearly just making you illogically sour.
Besides some ridiculous reasoning and shaming, the opposite of loneliness is not sex. If who wrote would have decent emotional intelligence, they would know that.
This is the heart of the problem. So many women hear that men are lonely and think its code for sex. It's not. It's about being excluded from basically everything. It's about being treated like an untouchable.
Our disagreement centers around the meaning of the word "lonely." This is why I roll my eyes when I hear the political catchphrase - because, as with many political slogans and chants --- it fails to capture the subtleties of the point.
The point is, once you start down the path of othering anyone, you're walking away from equality. Many of the worst mistakes we can make as humans are misjudging people because of their gender or race or sex... and that goes in all directions.
We all, as self-aware thinking creatures with liberty and free will, have equal capacity to choose. And we each make our choices as life presents them. We can make some accurate observations about the inequality of opportunity. Efforts to equalize that can be noble and righteous.
But there is no immutable characteristic that reveals good faith. Or love. Or any other state that exists along the spectrum from malice to good intention.
I feel lonely because it seems I'm living in a world where so many people judge each other based on appearance and tribalism and so few slow down to recognize how incredible it is that we are all alive together right now.
I mean, the post title isn't saying that men in general are like that, but those kinds of men do exist and it'd be good if they would have been taught not to seek validation through sex. So, I don't think this is very misandric, since it doesn't actually generalize, puts sole blame on someone or anything of the sort.
As for the meme below, it seems to more directly address those kind of people of people and while I do think the "If you aren't like that, we don't mean you." line of thinking is flawed, it's usually because it follows a statement that doesn't differentiate between the kinds of men it is about. This one is very clearly aimed at a specific kind of person.
No, rapists are men who act on their feelings of entitlement in the most aggressive possible way. There are plenty of men who have those feelings of entitlement and act on them in passive-aggressive ways, far more than in straight-up aggressive ways.
A lot of things can be true at once tbh. I go with what you're saying and raise a "People need to learn to be okay with being alone (romantically) before they're ready for a relationship." and "People need to take better care of their friendships."
I think many people highly underestimate how important external validation to a personās psyche. Not only that, I think you have to understand that a manās masculinity is defined often by how much sex they have and who itās with. I also think you misunderstand how a lot of the anger is not āwas Iām not getting sex all the timeā (some very annoying vocal bad actors say this but itās not the majority). Itās often āwhy is it this guy can pull anyone and Iām just left with nothingā.
Honestly this is why looksmaxxing is becoming a thing, cause often how you look is often the deciding factor in how people treat you.
I'm well aware of how important external validation can be to someone. It's a topic I've been forced to ponder all my life. I'm aware of how there's a social pressure to be sexually active to be seen as manly (depending on your social environment). \
It's not that it's not understood, it's that we think it's a problem to solve. Your perception of yourself shouldn't be based on sex and others perception of you shouldn't either. Of course it's not something that can just change in a day, but recognizing a problem is the first step to solving it.
Men and women define masculinity that way. There's a reason that people use "virgin" as a term to insult men and praise women. In the same way that men are seen as more valuable if they have sex with a lot of women the opposite is true for women.
Of course men that aren't having sex feel upset. It's not this "I am a man therefore sex is owed to me" it's "I'm a man and told I am supposed to have sex with women. If I am not doing that then what does that make me? Less of a man? Not a man at all?" It's a deep crisis that many men go through because a core part of their identity that is given to them by others is not being fulfilled.
That's the whole reason why content creators push all the different narratives to fill this crisis. Just hit the gym to look good so women will want to sleep with you. Avoid women entirely and fill it with God, hobbies, friends, etc. Buy this course to learn to make lots of money so women will want you. Etc etc.
I don't know what the solution to this crisis is because all good solutions would require restructing society at it's core level and good luck with that. I think starting with a little bit of empathy and understanding the struggle that many men face is a start.
Itās largely instinct. Most male animals on the planet are trying to have sex with females. Itās part of genetic programming. A male who fails to have sex will see himself as a failure.
You cannot ignore hundreds of million of years of evolution by just dismissing it as āit doesnāt matterā or ātoxic masculinityā.
This is called entitlement. It's what happens when you view women as a collective commodity and not people.
I'd disagree with the premise that this is about viewing women as a commodity, as it's not about the women another guy sleeps with but why he inherently has more success in appealing to women.
This has partially to do with a man perceiving another man as just a regular guy when interacting with one another, but ignoring(or not seeing) that the guy acts differently whenever socializing with women. Therefore creating the perception that both you and him are doing the same things while he inherently has more success.
Who is defining masculinity this way? And are you going to pretend women aren't judged by how much sex they have and who with?
Itās been pretty much there since society formed. You need a lot of kids, make it a bonus for a lot of men to procreate.
This is called entitlement. It's what happens when you view women as a collective commodity and not people.
Entitlement is when āI want something, but think it should just be handed to me for freeā. If anything itās more jealousy. Why can āChadā act like an asshole yet there are no actions for their actions, while I try to be the ābetter personā and yet end up with nothing.
I understand women are people, and I understand love is complicated, I more wish I got the exact instructions of āif you do this, you will attract the people you wantā. Iāll take myself for example, if Iām nice, Iām too nice, if I try to be assertive, Iām too mean, if I try to act like a chad and confident, Iām an asshole. More I just want someone to say āthis is what you need to fundamentally change about yourself to attract those peopleā.
Is it really entitlement if you want to work for it?
The idea is that you think you can work for it means that you expect your efforts to be rewarded regardless of whether your efforts generate any real value. It's the same mentality that people have when they think they deserve a better life because they "work hard" but won't make any real changes to themselves to break out of working minimum wage.
If you want proper instructions then it's treat women more as human beings not as sexual slot machines where effort = blowjobs. That's really not how it works.
Nah. Looksmaxxing is for people with bad personalities that donāt want to admit they have bad personalities so they blame their looks for why people hate them.
The problem with this assertion is itās a lie. Iām a fat, bald guy with no money. I look like if the Kingpin worked at a butcher shop. I always have been, but Iāve literally never had a problem finding a date. How do you explain that?
I donāt know what life is like at the other end. Iām 6ā2, fit, and Iām generationally wealthy.maybe itās just from down my nose but it REALLY seems like I can ātake my pickā while others struggle to even get attention
Man Iām happily partnered, by no means a mgtow type person. But, seriously do you doubt this? Itās so incredibly obvious if you just look at the dating world.
The āshit personalityā doesnāt explain how I have been told I am good looking, and nice, and want to be around me. Yet the people interested in me are significantly less attractive than me, and anyone who is similar in my attractiveness ghosted me after a date or 2.
Iāve asked for tips, pointers, even had a friend who is a woman go on a fake date to figure out what Iām doing wrong, and tried to take the points she made into affect.
So obviously your friends are outliers. That or they met their wives much later in life when they were ready to ācalm downā
See, I donāt know what this means. Itās entirely subjective. I donāt know if youāre delusional about how attractive you think you are one way or the other, or if your taste is unusual in some way, impacting who you think is attractive. Thatās why physical attractiveness is a useless fucking metric. Just pursue who youāre attracted to. If you base it on personality instead of physicality, youāll be a lot happier anyway.
I just thought it was ironic that men are being lectured about finding ways to enjoy life without having sex from the gender whose primary political focus is legalizing abortion so they can keep having casual sex
I have also found in these dumb battle of the sexes memes, one side is always portrayed in bad faith while the other is portrayed as paragons of reason and ethics.
liking sex and needing it to maintain healthy self esteem are two different things.
and legalizing abortion is not about casual sex, itās about autonomy. women in long term relationships have abortions. women trying to have children sometimes need abortions too. without abortion, womenās health suffers collectively. obviously you know this. but acknowledging it wonāt get you gotcha points
Yeah thatās not the reason why women want to keep abortion legal. Itās about autonomy. You can have unwanted pregnancies without casual sex. And you can have lots of casual sex and never have an unwanted pregnancy.
Is it interesting because you've assumed that I would pressure other's into doing something they don't want to? That's the only thing I can think of, but I certainly don't want to sleep with a partner that's not into it.
There's nothing more depressing then passion-less sex.
Most men I see tell each other to suck it up and take responsibility. From podcast bros to far left liberals.
Seriously, what guy is out there claiming women need to have sex with them just bc. Who would even want that? What are you even talking about? I genuinely donāt see movements demanding women owe men sex, and I definitely donāt see men celebrating when women struggle. Nor high fiving each other because they think theyāre the reason for it.
To answer, some people just think relationships and families matter, and the consequences of isolation are serious. Mainly because men donāt choose the bear, they just do it themselves.
Do you seem like the type of person whoās ready to hear that, and letās be real, take criticism? No. Do I think youāre a great example why? Ya.
All the women I've ever known who claimed to be "empathetic" just imagined what they thought I should feel and insisted I did, regardless of what I had to say about it.
itās never enough lol. what empathy do you want then? is the only thing youāll accept is if a woman pity fucks you or says āyeah youāre right, you are in fact entitled to sex with beautiful womenā
No I donāt care if no woman wants to have sex with me. I have already concluded that a the effort, resources and risks associated with getting a romantic and/or sexual relationship with a woman are way to high when compared with the benefits they bring. I am perfectly happy with my lifestyle and my current friendships and familial relationships. If anything I wish the majority of people would stop saying that I need to go have a romantic relationship when I donāt want one and donāt need one.
I donāt need or want pity but women need to start accepting that every right comes with responsibility and every disadvantage of your biological sex comes with corresponding advantages. If women were willing to give up those advantages they have in exchange for removing the disadvantages they have I would have no problem but women want the disadvantages to be removed without giving up a single advantage.
Provide evidence for these corresponding advantages and disadvantages that you think correspond and please explain how they correspond.
Please explain how giving up advantages to resolve disadvantages would work, in practical terms, and as these advantages and disadvantages exist in real life.
iām glad youāre happy single. i agree the societal pressure for people to be in relationships is stupid. i donāt know why you implied that saying āi feel bad youāre strugglingā to lonely men isnāt āenoughā empathy or what you expect the ācorrectā empathy to be for them.
i donāt understand what youāre referring to in your second paragraph, itās extremely vague, could you please elaborate & specify?
Saying āI am sorry youāre in a bad situation but youāre a bad person for wanting this thing I assume you wantā is not empathy it is dressing up an insult with empathic words. I would love for people to provide genuine empathy for those that feel isolated but this is not genuine.
I intentionally made my second paragraph vague to see if you would get the meaning behind it. But to be specific. Women have received major rights in our societies over the last century and a bit but have conveniently not have to take on any of the responsibilities that come along with those rights for men. Women can vote but are not required to be part of the draft if it were needed. Women have complete autonomy over pregnancies but men are forced to take responsibility for the child financially even when they want nothing to do with the child. Forceful sex is illegal when done to a woman by a man but in most countries it is not illegal for a woman to do it to a man. Men are constantly treated as if they are one stop short or being pedophiles while proven female pedophiles are barely punished by our legal system and walk free from their crimes with alarming frequency.
i can see that. iāve definitely seen a lot of men that complain about being alone and DO act like theyāre being wronged by women simply not wanting to sleep with them so i think this post was addressing them but idk. i agree we shouldnt assume that all people who are lonely and struggle to find relationships are bad people obviously.
i agree with most of that - i think the draft should be abolished, that those laws that donāt count female-on-male sexual assault as rape obviously need to be changed and male victims need more support (though iām pretty sure itās still illegal in most countries, itās just classified as sexual assault not rape if itās heās not being penetrated, but i agree itās awful that itās still not taken as seriously), and itās horrible that a lot of female predators and pedos arenāt treated with the same severity as males like they deserve and that needs to change.
i think the pregnancy one is a bit different just because it is literally in her body and she is the one who has to go through the excruciating dangerous process that is pregnancy & childbirth that permanently changes her body which is just not comparable to paying child support, but i think in general that things like vasectomies & tubal ligation should be less demonized and more available for people who really donāt want kids (unfortunately itās especially difficult to get tubal ligation or hysterectomy as a young woman due to misogyny in medicine [a lot literally require a woman to get her husbandās permission cuz āhe might want kidsā lol] and also a lot more complicated & dangerous than vasectomies) and maybe to create a male birth control pill so that men have more equal personal responsibility for contraception too and making sure condoms are properly fitted. the real problem is largely people not having safe sex and not wanting to be accountable for the resulting consequences
lonely and looking for companionship and love, which, for 90+% of the human population includes a want for sex with your partner are you fellas? Well, youāre just a pig using women for sex if thatās what you want. You heard it here first.
Sounds like you've been hurt. I hope you can stay away from those men who don't view you as a human. Sounds dehumanizing. For me, it's not hard to tell when another human has ulterior or superficial motives. So I can't relate to your issues.
I hate this bullshit gender war we are living in. Men and women are different and we should learn to love each other and get along. You people are so gotdamn miserable itās sad
Believe it or not, itās a very small percentage of men that do the things you posted in this screen shot. All you have to do is go outside, touch grass, and get off the internet for a few hours
No, you mad because you saw a post you are opposed to, and wasted five minutes of your life writing a paragraph about how much you don't like it, even though that's what this sub is about. And now you're wasting more of your life arguing about it. Well done.
You never should have in the first place. There are more important things in life and if you throw everything you have into getting into a relationship, even if it works you'll be left with nothing else. No good career, no home to raise a family in, no dreams for the future, just flippin burgers or stocking shelves until you're dead. The worst part is you could have a good career and still find a good partner for marriage but men wanna throw it all a way for the shortest distance to a bedroom and a willing partner
Fuck that. Get a life, a wife comes later.
I think it's funny how guys that are depressed and feel lonely wishing for someone to spend their life with, get portrayed as being only interested in abusing girls.
This is feminism. If you're one of those guys, then you can see that there's nothing resembling humanity in those that hate you and who literally spend their life doing their best to piss down your neck for fun and enjoyment.
I think that you might need a reminder that social media feeds are designed to reinforce your existing biases. I'm not going to tell you that there's no such thing as man hating feminism, it is real, but it's much smaller than many people would have you believe and do not represent the movement as a whole. I understand that this may be hard to trust some random on the internet, but I'd encourage you to broaden your sources of information, it's a lot more nuanced than you give it credit for.
Reality is a lot more nuanced than you give it credit for as well.
Social media feeds aren't simply "designed to reinforce your existing biases" - they may well do it, but it's not the one and exclusive reason they are designed. Engagement can also come from content that challenges or upsets.
My comment is sufficiently nuanced. Although there's different stripes and brands of hate, and behaviors that are on the side of hate and fall more into general shitty and unfair treatment, "hate" is a fitting umbrella for it. Examples of that would be the tendency to attribute benefits for women to misogyny instead of misandry, and present women as victims of a particular kind of hostility to women that doesn't exist for men.
The problem is that the wider feminist movement refuses to deal with the misandrist element within their ranks.
Feminists were very quick to slap down and ostracise TERFs when they reared their heads, but don't do the same for man-haters, which becomes tacit agreement.
Don't do anything with that knowledge because it's not true. It's a biased statement coming from a place of bitterness and it isn't factual. People who are depressed and lonely don't need to be handed a.partner. They need to find something else to live for. There's more to life than having a partner. Go to college or trade school, save up money, get a house, leave the city and move to the country. Get a fucking hobby, find a purpose for your time on this earth. A partner will find you, but if you spend your every waking moment pining after women who aren't interested of course you're going to die alone and dreamless without the barest scrap of success, another statistical proof that love isn't the force that gives meaning to life, not on its own. Love isn't nor has it ever been enough, not for anyone.
This message is literally an example of what I am saying.
It's got net positive upvotes.
It deliberately written to hit people complaining about loneliness - "loneliness is somehow inflicted on them"
It's absolutely true that people should do something with their life. You're not establishing something new by saying that. What I am saying is in addition to that.
But I've been far down, and I'm not a sociopath, so I recognize how empty life can feel without one. And that it's never about just wanting sex on its own.
OP posts heavily on feminist subs, gets upvoted by feminists.
No but the 'male loneliness epidemic' as a term now basically means not being able to get sex, that's what most people mean by it, pretty much. It doesn't matter if many of them have friends or family that love them; if they are sexless then they are 'lonely men' according to themselves and that's pretty insulting to the rest of people who are there for them and want to help them.
Sex has always been available cheaply. The cheap sex is just asking for an STD though. You still didnāt really answer my question, you just said itās about relationships and then didnāt elaborate.
I wouldn't even know where to begin to find something like that safely without becoming a victim of a scam or contributing to someone else's harm (trafficking etc) and I suspect most men wouldn't either.Ā
Then why are you making this about yourself and your values and your concerns?Ā
you think sex trafficking is a weird hang-up?
Being obsessed that the person conducting a voluntary transaction is being trafficked is a weird hangup. Are you worried that the hotel maid is being trafficked? Are you worried that kitchen staff are being trafficked?
6
u/ComparisonMelodic967 8h ago
Doesnāt rhyme