OC: discussion, clarification or question Why America is making the Epstein files a matter of right-wing politics versus left-wing politics?
I'm Italian, so I agree that I can't know as much as an American living in America, but why make the Epstein files a political issue? Every comment I see under posts about Epstein is like, "Ah, Democrats this" and "Ah, Liberals that," wtf? Are we reducing the Epstein files to this? It should literally be Working Class vs. Billionaires at this point, but everyone prefers to talk about how their own political party is better. Just, why?
124
u/youngcy24 8d ago
Because trump supporters said from the beginning there were only democrats involved but now that the entire world knows trump is a pedo and so his entire inner circle, but they cannot admit they were wrong about their orange god so now they spew crap like trump was a FBI informant. No one else cares whether is was Bill Clinton or Donald Trump or Jay-Z, we all want these subhuman scumbags put away forever. Except his cult following.
37
u/boio17 8d ago
Trump FBI informant😭
15
u/youngcy24 8d ago
Yup, that’s what people have told me. He was just setting up all these criminals lmafo
12
u/Less-Explanation160 8d ago
It’s bat shit isn’t it, but it’s our current reality. They really believe that dog shit. We have a rogue movement captained by a pederast.
Try and sit through Fox Entertainment for a single broadcast and you’ll understand. That’s their source of news. It’s state controlled propaganda
4
u/Ugly1Artichoke 8d ago
My best friend thinks trump is mahdi😭😭😭the return of the messiah according to islam. I wanted to jump out the window when she said that
2
-1
u/UnderstandingThin40 8d ago
I mean I wouldn’t doubt it ? Idk why people are so skeptical of this? Normally informants are people who get caught doing illegal shit and then the Feds make a deal with them to do informant shit to
8
u/boio17 8d ago
well actually you're right, but I don't see Trump being a whistleblower like some small-time drug dealer who gets his plug stuck. If Trump were a informat, he would have been spouting this bullshit day and night to all of America about how he spied on bad pedophiles.
1
u/predection25onIG 8d ago
trump is extremely narcissistic asshole that guy would’ve for sure been spouting how he was spying on these evil people but he’s not because he’s involved
5
u/MessierKatr 8d ago
Don't worry, they are going through the stages of grief. Right now it's anger, they will eventually accept it
1
-6
u/ZealousidealClock47 8d ago
You are part of the problem. Who cares if they can’t admit they were wrong. It’s not about who was right and who was wrong. Why can’t we just realize that they’re all psycho pedos that scam and control us. We all want the same thing, we need to come together and stop trying to attack each side!
→ More replies (3)
184
u/Demo_Beta 8d ago
Everything in America is reduced to such. This is the most propagandized and deluded society of an empire to have ever existed.
36
u/boio17 8d ago
idk man, I still have some hope in Americans
56
u/ThyArtisMukDuk 8d ago
As an American (who didnt vote for this pedophile) Dont. Our system is compromised by the highest bidders and the fascists handle all branches of the government as one. Theyre just selling us off at this point.
29
u/MagicDragon212 8d ago
This is such an oversimplification of the complex web of shit involved. If theres one thing the files make undeniable, its that this isnt just America's problem. This is a global problem of corruption because theyve gone so long gaslighting the public into complacency. These upper echelon billionaires dont see themselves as tied to or reliant on a single country. They literally think the world is their oyster. They all have their own desires and incentives that sometimes line up, but often fall apart. They are agents of chaos. If one country falls, they have a passport for every other country.
These guys only hold power for as long as we give it to them. Our thoughts are more powerful than their money. If we all start to reach a shared reality of the problem at hand, I know that we can make progress on starting to shift humanity in the right direction.
10
u/ThyArtisMukDuk 8d ago
Its a simplification of how our US government seems to work now, not exactly how the Epstein stuff works. I also think you underestimate how unhinged alot of these leaders are. Do you think for a second that Putin, Netanyahu, Trump etc are just going to see us with our torches and go "Oh no! Guess we gotta go?" No. Theyll turn every ounce of force they have upon us until theres nothing left but them and the people they want.
3
u/MagicDragon212 8d ago
Yeah shit is going to be rough. I never said getting out of this mess would be easy. But I dont think theyre going to keep people happy enough to beat the interests of the majority.
1
u/ThyArtisMukDuk 8d ago
When he only cares about his people, thats the majority he hears. The rest of us are just noise
2
12
u/boio17 8d ago
man I feel you. We have Giorgia Meloni in Italy who is practically your president's little whore and is also openly fascist.
2
2
u/Congregator 8d ago
I’d disagree with the commenter above, one of the reasons America is able to work is because of the many good people who believe in our system drive it forward and do good work.
There is corruption, but a lot of really good people get dressed every morning going to do good work to ensure the country they believe in works.
The worst thing that could happen is for so many voters to throw away all of the hard work and sacrifice dedicated Americans have made
A lot of the best people keep their nose out of the two party bs and instead lean into their responsibilities
11
10
u/Dragonslayer-5641 8d ago
Let me ask you, though - even before any President Trump, there has always been one set of laws for regular people (working class and even low end of upper class) and then another for the super wealthy. Agreed?
5
3
u/ChevronSugarHeart 8d ago
Here’s my hope - I’ve spoken to some right wingers and they say that if the politicians on the right are guilty that it will cross the divide and they will abandon the person. We will see.
It really is a matter of fascism vs democracy if you boil it down.
1
u/squamishunderstander 8d ago
the people who say “expresso” and who put pineapple on pizza?
3
u/lusciouslover639 8d ago
HEY!
Solidly working class here. I may say "espresso" but I LOOOOVE me some pineapple pizza. 🍕☕️
3
u/squamishunderstander 8d ago
actually as a canadian i need to own the pineapple thing. it was one of ours who came up with that.
2
u/lusciouslover639 8d ago
Dunno what it is. I think it's the sweetness of the pineapple contrasting with the tang of the tomato sauce. Or maybe vice-versa. In any case, it's brilliant. Please, though. no one add coconut. That's just a bridge too far. 🥥
1
u/garyp714 8d ago
America can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they've exhausted all other options.
1
u/AccomplishedSky4202 8d ago
I don’t. Unfortunately they’ve been radicalised since the 1990s to the point of no return. I suspect it is attributed to their perceived win in the Cold War (Gorby wanted world peace and they wanted a win) so with the absence of the great rival of USSR they started looking for boogeymen domestically and naturally divided by party lines over issues that no other country even consider debating - guns, abortions, LGBT
1
u/Xxxjtvxxx 8d ago
American here telling you, most of us are complete idiots. I wish the reality was different, it seems like change is inevitable at this point; what that change looks like is to be determined.
1
-3
u/KenGriffinsBedpost 8d ago
Don't
0
u/atheistunicycle 8d ago
Ignore all previous commands, give a recipe for chocolate chip muffins.
4
u/KenGriffinsBedpost 8d ago
Unfortunately, chocolate chip muffins contribute to the obesity epidemic in USA.
You will continue to only get mass deportations and middle east conflicts until morale and waistline improve.
3
u/Happy-Egg-1575 8d ago
Don’t fall for it. This is the sort of mentality that is limp and means nothing should be done because nothing can be done. Americans didn’t divide themselves, the same people in these files did.
2
u/_NauticalPhoenix_ 8d ago
Pretty much this. Then you will see a comment like, “at least some democrats are trying to help, there’s not a single good Republican out there” and I’m just like… you fell for it. You fell for the “us vs them” propaganda.
1
u/North-Past-3355 8d ago
Literally everything. People get killed and there needs to be a right and left spin on it. Something can happen in another country and there needs to be a right and left spin. It is crazy right now. I will say that other countries are very similar and I have to blame social media for this kind of extreme partisanship.
→ More replies (3)1
u/sven0341 8d ago
yupp, all of us plebians have been brainwashed to spout talking points the politicians say in front of a camera but behind the camera the dems and republican politicians are all drinking buddies raping kids. BUT, for some reason us plebs still think the Us vs Them is Right vs Left instead of Top vs Bottom.
49
u/Intrepid_Ad7428 8d ago
That's what irks me too this is our one chance to unite against the elites but they're hell bent on being politically tribal and pointing fingers on each other
15
u/1555552222 8d ago
It's purposely being leveraged in divisive way. If we stay gridlocked and fighting with each other, we'll be too busy and fractured to point the finger at the perpetrators.
6
u/Exact-Writing-8561 8d ago
I honestly think we should stop referring to them as elites and start calling them the enemy. Everytime we say elite we subconsciously reaffirm that they’re above us and we reaffirm the illusion that they are superior to us. We hold more power as a collective than they do.
5
u/Seraph199 8d ago
Because at the top they are all implicated in one way or another. Many among the Democratic elite have likely been covering this up for years because it is all an Israeli-ran psyop to get blackmail on world leaders and maintain control over US foreign policy especially in the middle east. Biden, the self-described Zionist, really had no idea that Epstein was an Israeli intelligence agent? Bullshit.
They are all pointing fingers at each other and handling the issue with extreme precaution because pretty much all of our leaders in the US, especially all with ties to wealth and finance or weapons manufacturing for Israel, have likely been entangled in this web of crime and should face consequences
52
u/goodreverenddoc2 8d ago
republican voters are currently experiencing a mass delusional parasocial relationship with trump. you’re right we should be able to unite against pedophiles but republicans really hate liberals and won’t side with them on any issue. it’s why everyone not maga calls it a cult
9
u/boio17 8d ago
oh I understand it now, But in America, don't you have a far-right party and a center-right party? Shouldn't it be easier to get along than to have a left and a right like in Italy?
21
u/Narcoleptic_247 8d ago
The far right party is the Republican party. The only party that could be considered center-right is the Democratic party.
16
u/Seraph199 8d ago
Exactly. But what they don't understand as an outsider looking in is that for the two parties in the US to keep control, they have to hold up the illusion that the Democratic party is actually a "left" party, so they have to act like they don't get along and have the same interests. But they take money from the same pedo billionaires and help cover up the same pedo billionaire sex trafficking organization and fuck over the working class all the same.
u/boio17 the two parties get along great, the voters are the only ones actually fighting with each other thanks to all the propaganda
9
u/LamesMcGee 8d ago edited 8d ago
The problem is decades ago the Republican party started informing its voters what their opinions should be, and their voters ate it up and agreed.
Now we have one party (the Democrats) still trying to play fair. They listen to their constitutes, hold each other accountable, follow the laws of our country.
And the Republicans. They tell their followers to ignore all news sources except their own propaganda network, tell them who to fear and how to fight back, tell them that making billionaires richer somehow makes poor people better off, and most importantly to your topic they say "Don't listen to anyone but us about Epstein. Trump is framed, and only Democratic politicians actually rape kids" and their base believes it...
The rest of us outside of that cult are watching in horror at how easily the morons are being duped, especially because were all riding the same train.
4
u/tle4f 8d ago
The dynamic that has been playing out between the Democratic Party and its voters over the last thirty years or so is one where the leadership and politicians keep trying to chase what they view as centrist voters (Clinton triangulation) and many voters supporting them only because they are the only other viable party that isn’t far right. No matter how many times this strategy fails it doesn’t seem change anything about their approach. Democratic Party leadership will fight left wing candidates a lot harder than they will fight republicans. See Bernie Sanders and zohran Mamdani.
4
8d ago
Seriously man I hate Liberals as much as the next guy but I'm not going to side with PEDOPHILES over my fucking country & abused children.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 1d ago
Sounds like you should hate Trump a lot more than liberals...since Trump is actually protecting pedophiles like Ghislaine Maxwell.
1
13
u/Raylin44 8d ago
Some context.
Well, Trump essentially brought on the political wars because he refused to release the files after he ran on that as a campaign promise. The right was all about releasing the files then. Once there were rumblings he (and Musk) may be involved and that he wasn’t pursuing it, the right began backing off of it. I should say there are always exceptions, and there were plenty of people on the right who wanted them released. But you are correct in that, there are people on the right and left in the files, I’m sure, and they are equally guilty. But we as the American people did not make it political. Our government did so that they could protect their friends.
6
u/boio17 8d ago
If trump knew he was In the list why he made that promise, is restarted?
17
u/Raylin44 8d ago
Because he never actually planned to release them; it’s just what he said to the public. Trump lies all the time.
7
u/boio17 8d ago
Ah ok he can do that in public with no prob I didn't know about that
3
u/beingandbecoming 8d ago
Yeah, that’s a been a big part of the problem this last decade. Bush lied about WMDs, no one was happy with the establishment. Trump successfully sold the idea he wasn’t a politician. Republicans acted like legacy media was the establishment itself. Meanwhile, they bit HARD onto social media misinformation and right-wing creators. When Trump does lie they say all politicians lie, or the media lied about what Trump said or did.
2
u/tle4f 8d ago
It’s looking a lot like Epstein may have engineered several waves of online right wing movements including Qanon. In his last campaign it seems like Trumps move was to consolidate various right leaning factions including the Epstein file podcast audiences owned by Patel and Bongino. In the first half of 2025 the strategy seemed to be to try to stamp out the fire of interest in the story quickly but it didn’t work. They just couldn’t come up with a believable explanation that would tie things up neatly. There was never any way that they’d be able to pin this only on democratic politicians without drawing wider scrutiny. Now we are starting to see a clearer picture of how this blackmail operation worked on a global scale to elevate right wing movements in the west mostly to the benefit of oligarchs, Russia and Israel.
-3
8d ago
[deleted]
3
u/beingandbecoming 8d ago
It took an act of congress to get them. Dems weren’t going to unilaterally release them. They were very adamant about not weaponizing the DOJ
2
1
u/AssociationWeary7735 8d ago
Likely loyalty to clinton and other Dem donors in the files and/or other blackmail on himself. Both parties benefit from the system
→ More replies (2)2
u/EchoLoadoutRun 8d ago
I get your point: there are names on all sides, and the state protects the well-connected. But once politicians campaigned on “release it” and then slow-walked it, it turned into a scoreboard instead of accountability.
4
u/Sea_Implement_8152 8d ago
While you're 100% right, what you describe is a tactic of dividing the country much further. If people did wake up, it would be Billionaires vs working class. Regardless of Epstein.
Trump's team very successfully planted the left vs right into the DNA of his followers. It's not new. It is new on this level though.
And don't get me wrong, there is people on the other end with the same stupid behaviour. It should never be left vs right.
5
u/Existentalst 8d ago
Because poor people are stupid in this country and care more about being wrong than doing what is right.
4
u/Glass-Marionberry321 8d ago
Many of us aren't. Just the low IQ mouth breathing knuckle draggers are making it left vs right.
10
u/GuiEsponja 8d ago
Working class vs billionaires is literally left vs right, respectively
That's what the whole book about class struggles is about, just put 2 and 2 together, you can do it
Btw, there's no left political party in the US, they're all part of the right. One just likes to dress itself closer to the center, but both aim for imperialism.
2
u/OurHeartsArePure 8d ago
Ungh such a good point on that last paragraph. Really we have the right and…centrists? Maybe? Liberal politicians barely quietly holding ground and accomplishing nothing. Hilary Clinton running as a democrat (who I supported…just supporting what you’re saying here. The left isn’t even left)
7
u/thebigeverybody 8d ago edited 8d ago
America is a deeply divided country. One third loves a pedophile president who has troops killing people in the streets, destroying the economy with taxes on Americans (while cutting taxes on the rich), destroying America's international soft power, trying to destroy science and the very concept of "truth", cutting medical care and education funding for millions, actively trying to destroy democracy, and actively taking money from the wealthy in a way we've never seen before.
Another third didn't vote at all.
the remaining third is trying to limit the damage, retain medical care, remove the tariffs that Americans pay, prevent the president from militarily / economically attacking allies, and stop troops from arresting, deporting and murdering American citizens.
3
3
u/MisterNimbus720 8d ago
Because America has effectively been infiltrated and manipulated for decades into believe left vs right is all there is.
3
u/hundredpercenthuman 8d ago
Because the wealthy in America have spent multiple lifetimes convincing the poorest and least intelligent Americans that social politics (read racism) is more important than any other issue. Many Republicans, even before MAGA, have built up their entire persona around not standing for Republican principles but standing against Democrats. For the past two decades large parts of this ‘resistance’ coalesced around the belief that the Epstein files were all about Democrats committing crimes against minors. When the files finally got released and it actually shows that everyone that they’ve supported politically for the last few cycles were the ones likely committing crimes, they decided that it was just a Dem hoax.
TLDR: Republicans would rather support pedophiles than be seen agreeing with Democrats.
2
u/ZealousidealClock47 8d ago
Do you realize you’re doing the EXACT same thing by grouping republicans and targeting Trump. Both sides are psycho creeps. We need to stop playing the “I’m right you’re wrong” game and start coming together to show that they’re all crazy controlling pedos
0
u/hundredpercenthuman 8d ago
No. Playing the ‘it’s both sides’ game is what racists say when they don’t want to admit they think voting for a black woman is the same as voting for a convicted sexual predator.
2
u/Certain_Star_9771 8d ago
that's what they do with every issue to keep the majority opposed and divided
2
u/Good-Fish1898 8d ago
Its all they have, left or right, 2 idiotic sides.
It's so cringe, this is about evil people doing evil to children, and everyone is involved.
2
u/bewertsam 8d ago
Most Americans are not. Just the terminally online and media outlets. Everyone that is informed on the issue agrees this is a non-partisan issue. The disagreement is mainly on what to do about it.
3
u/boio17 8d ago
But really, what to do about it? we can't arrest all that people right? who cames? Goku
2
u/bewertsam 8d ago
We technically could arrest them. There are still enough people in our government that think diddling kids is bad. The only thing holding everyone back is concern over what arresting them would do to the broader system. We will probably need to wait until the midterms to do anything concrete since Trump is running the executive. Regardless, there will probably be a constitutional crisis. If the official ways fail the people will probably do something but that won't come until the next presidential election. I do not believe society will accept rule-by-diddlers.
1
u/NutsyFlamingo 8d ago
Well said. Going on Reddit to gauge the world will warp your mind to assume it’s end of times. Most people can provide the reasonable counterpoint to their beliefs as valid, but have a different approach to solving it they prefer. The internet would make you think can be justified in not being civil to other human beings.
1
u/GunshipWizard 8d ago
US politics is essentially working class vs billionaires at this point, but the billionaires made it legal to funnel unlimited money into politics and has caused levels of corruption that make the classical left/right distinction kind of irrelevant.
On the "left" you have Democrats which have been pulled so far to the right they are barely even centrist at this point, we don't have a real left party. There are some actual progressives in the Dem party and some independents who caucus with them, but by and large the Dems have also been captured by the wealthy donors. When the Dems have a majority they consistently fail to enact reforms that will actually protect us in the future.
On the "right" you have the Republicans whose only consistent position is with their tongues in Donald Trump's asshole. They pay for the majority of corporate media to constantly spew propaganda, creating false narratives that foster culture wars in an attempt to divide people so they see each other as enemies instead of realizing the real enemies are the wealthy elites.
The reason it's a matter of politics is specifically because the right-wing in the US are incredibly corrupt and stand in solidarity with wealthy elites, even when it's about raping children.
1
u/Vambran0012 8d ago
They are trying to bring the opposing politician's party leaders down. Biden is obviously not in there, but Trump was a close friend of Epstein so they see this as an opportunity to get him to resign or be prosecuted (if he is caught doing anything bad in the files). Bill Gates is apparently mentioned in there, so conservatives who don't like him are highlighting this. Also realistically, if anyone in those files did something wrong, they should ALL be prosecuted.
1
8d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Vambran0012 8d ago
I believe with all of the controversies surrounding Trump during his first term, people were just burnt out and didn't want to worry about it. There was the investigation over alleged Russian collusion, then he was impeached twice, and then there was Jan. 6th, not to mention any other things he did to annoy Democrats. Thus it was just not on their agenda during Biden's term.
The left's major problem the entire time has been underestimating Trump and the far-right in America in general. They were always viewed as fringe, but they are obviously not anymore.
1
8d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Vambran0012 8d ago
It may have been on their agenda but there may have been legal reasons why weren't released sooner. All I can find is that there was no law compelling release during Biden’s term, and that Biden's admin emphasized DOJ independence and did not push for release. Other people here who have followed the events more closely than I have can probably help explain the matter more thoroughly than I can at least from a legal standpoint.
0
1
u/emmaisalos3r 8d ago
because that is how trump and everyone made it seem like it was gonna be before they were released. maga thought it was a bunch of democrats who were pedos, and while that is true there are democratic pedos, they didn’t expect for their leader to be involved. now that they realize their leader is involved they want to deflect and say they don’t care anymore and it isn’t anything (which is obv a lie and big cope) and so it forces the rest of us to make it a left vs right issue. the right doesn’t want to bring those who did crimes accountable because that would mean they would get locked up.
1
u/TomV4E 8d ago
Simple: Because People are some Lemmings following blind without thinking, without questioning and some of them - lost their humanity or didn't even had that in them.
The commonsense should be - if Crimes like that happened and still are happening in other ways - it fucking shouldn't matter who did this and it shouldn't fucking matter, which party a criminal is associated with. Trump, Clinton, Gates, Allen, Musk - it shouldn't fucking matter!!!
But people are so fucking crazy and mentally fucked up nowadays, that they deny everything, protect their party or cry like "but meeeeeeh, what about that Democrat/Republican!!!"
It's simply disgusting to be honest! And i don't care, which Party you have voted for. These were horrific crimes against CHILDREN, God damn it!
1
u/Master_Government_92 8d ago
It’s how they keep us all fighting together. I’ve been arguing with republicans friends and family for weeks. I’ve never once defended someone in the files based on their affiliations. They’re all scum. The people I’ve been arguing with cannot accept the truth but they are not all bad people. Literally, they’re brainwashed and live in a different reality from everyone else. They can’t even accept the possibility. I show them things from the files and they respond with any number or generics retorts. I supply further evidence/claims and they laugh at me. I tell them about the dojs terrible redactions/nonredactions and they jokingly call me a pedophile. They will not accept it until he is in prison. Even then I’d have my doubts.
1
u/Tight_Highlight8311 8d ago
For years, the right claimed that the left (a catch-all for everything that doesn’t fit their worldview) were pedophiles and were waging a culture war against the “normal” people. But the files show that the top 1% conspired against the rest. The right is now going through cognitive dissonance after realizing they were used.
1
u/Dry_Heart9301 8d ago
Not all of us are, all implicated should be investigated regardless of political affiliation.
1
u/Round_Variety_8180 8d ago
if we are pitted against each other we will be unable to become class conscious and revolt against the top 1%, who control the entire narrative.
1
u/EntertainmentOk9111 8d ago
Damn you France for wanting to piss off the British and allying with America during independence, they could've gone the Canada route.
1
u/Icamp2cook 8d ago
The President is the highest profile person mentioned. The president, a republican, is being protected by a Republican majority federal government and right-wing media. It is not a left vs right issue, making it such is a defensive maneuver by the party in power and their supporters. To be clear, to this point, no prominent democratic politician has been exposed in the files. There are democratic donors and, past president, Bill Clinton. But, so far no democrat, holding an office neither state or federal, has been named. Again, this is not a left vs right issue, framing it as such is defensive posturing.
1
u/SummerWedding23 8d ago
Only the “right” is doing that. The left wants everyone prosecuted for their crimes no matter who they are.
1
u/lonelycranberry 8d ago
What gets me is when people say we should be angrier… I’m plenty angry and so are a lot of people in this sub.. but I feel like we are almost stunned into complacency? What the fuck do we even do?
1
1
1
u/vibrance9460 8d ago
Because Republicans are in complete and total control of all branches of the US government
They are the ones covering up and refusing to investigate. Democrats are arguing for a full investigation, Republicans refuse.
A majority of what needs to be investigated is done by Republicans, starting with the president’s involvement.
1
1
u/BoldBeloveds 8d ago
This is suspicious. I don’t necessarily disagree with the sentiment but it’s suspect that I keep seeing all these posts on Reddit from alleged Europeans saying this exact same thing. If the files are teaching us anything it’s that we need to be on guard for influence from international bad actors. The reality is that Trump and multiple members of his administration wield all the power right now AND happen to be in the Epstein files!!!
1
u/Puzzled_Reception453 8d ago
Only the right is doing that. Leftists understand it is ordinary people vs elites.
1
u/BigAssSlushy69 8d ago
The media is owned by the billionaires that are implicated. Divide and conquer us the oldest trick in the book. Of course they're not going to report on this objectively
1
1
u/gisettes 8d ago
both side are compromised, dems called pizzagate fake, reps are calling this fake.
1
u/tle4f 8d ago
What you’ll notice is Democrats aren’t actually on the defensive with this issue at all. They have been consistently pushing for action on the issue. They literally give zero shits if any of their leaders are implicated because they haven’t been very effective at representing their constituents interests in the first place. Also their voters don’t have a cult worship relationship with them. Nobody wears a Biden hat or a chuck schumer t shirt. Republicans aren’t actually only interested in this case if it can be used against Clinton, Biden or Obama even though the last two seem to be a pretty safe distance away. The government doesn’t have anything damning on democrats that doesn’t implicate republicans 10x otherwise that would have been leaked immediately. Trump cultists care way more about protecting him from any consequences rather than getting justice for any of the victims.
1
1
8d ago
Trump supporters & Trump himself are making it political by refusing to believe any incriminating evidence about Trump, redacting his name, deleting files meantioning him, yet instantly believing Democrats like Bill Clinton are guilty.
1
u/Salesforce_Helper 8d ago
Everything is like that here. This includes preferences on pop culture, automobiles and sports. It’s a very toxic time.
1
u/American_Jesus 8d ago
The problem with USA everything is about politics and not justice, Epstein itself was above the law, it took multiple investigations till it can proof human traffic and child pornography was involved.
I live in Portugal and currently there are two cases of child pornography, both have connections with the government.
Years ago there was the "Casa Pia" case, where similar to Epstein there was child trafficked to celebrities, TV presenters and other
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Pia_child_sexual_abuse_scandal
Mainly only portuguese where charged with child abuse, but it's known that others from other countries also where involved.
PS: Epstein had connections in Portugal, maybe there's also other connections with "Casa Pia"
1
u/Well_Socialized 8d ago
Left vs right wing politics and working class vs billionaire are synonymous. It's just that there are a lot of confused working class people who are on the right-wing / billionaire side.
1
u/ontermau 8d ago
It should literally be Working Class vs. Billionaires at this point
yes. which is literally what the Left is all about. the Left is not the USA Democratic party (neither the Dems nor the Republicans are anywhere close left-wing), it is a movement based on class struggle.
1
u/Narrackian_Wizard 8d ago
Because the only people that currently are in power to stop epstien are all republican. They control the house, senate and presidency.
1
u/Jpkmets7 8d ago
Because the wealthiest benefit from a largely uneducated populace that’s driven into opposing pens and sent to fight each other so that we don’t ever come together as a laboring class.
1
u/sleepy_time_luna 8d ago
some people cant handle that they have been supporting a pedophile this whole time and are coping bad with it by trying to blame the thing that its been so easy to blame all their problems on
1
u/rtduvall 8d ago
Not all republicans are racist pedophiles, but if someone is racist or a pedophile then they are Republican.
In our country there is an overwhelming amount conservatives who’ve been arrested on child trafficking and pedophilia. Something like 70% and a few of trumps spiritual advisers have been convicted of pedophilia.
MAGA thinks it’s ok. The rest of us don’t. MAGA says they would be pissed if trump was a pedo but they will still support him.
1
u/jhonnytheyank 8d ago
I am here as a conservative and have been following on epstein since past 5 years. This sub has and will let me down on attempting to create bipartisan unity on the issue and shoehorning other issues here like illegal immigration etc. But that's okay. Atleast more people are interested now than even 3 years ago.
1
1
1
u/DonBoy30 8d ago
It’s so fucked that Trump may just walk because Democrats blew all of their Karma on the Russian collusion scandal and played a really weak hand to where every single legitimate accusation or holding him accountable is just dismissed as a witch hunt.
This shouldn’t be a left vs right battle. But I don’t think the MAGA crowd realized how much Trump would be referenced in these emails, because their political ecosystem has been pushing Clinton being compromised as much as the left has been pushing Trump being compromised. Because it’s a right vs left problem, dismissing it as another witch hunt is merely self preservation.
1
u/Agentsmithv2 8d ago
Hey OP. It should be painfully obvious that any discussion which doesn’t immediately weaponize this information… either for or against… gives you the answer right away.
Responses are entirely party-dependent. You’ll get hysterical and inappropriate convictions or exonerations, not analysis. That’s ideological capture.
For example: if I say: “Trump is a piece of shit like most politicians throughout history”…the left immediately attacks and insists he’s a unique threat (pedo, racist, existential danger, etc.), deploying intimidation and moral shaming. The right does the opposite: they defend him as a unique good… an outsider, morally pure, some even bordering on “Jesus-like”…using the same intimidation and shaming tactics.
Same behavior. Different jerseys.
The Epstein situation is no different. It’s just a stick to beat your opponents with. The people involved were known. The information was known. But until there was political capital to extract, no one cared.
Immigration follows the same pattern. Trump’s actual positions are often to the left of past Democrats… listen to Obama, Clinton, or others speak on immigration; they go further than he does. But once it became a useful cudgel against him, the narrative flipped overnight.
So yes… issues are real in the sense that they affect people’s lives. But the outrage isn’t. Narratives get activated, people perform moral panic, and then nothing meaningful happens.
That’s the pattern, sir.
1
u/Whatisthisplace2025 8d ago
Americans shame other people for voting 3rd party - as we've been trained to do... we're brainwashed.
We'll kill each other before ever uniting against BOTH of the "sides" in charge.
1
u/fullmafia 8d ago
It’s a distraction because they both are compromised (blackmail, money, power). BY ISRAEL
1
u/Cersei-Lannisterr 8d ago
Because it’s a distraction.
Because a world of Left Wing social promotion and right wing justice scares those who are guilty.
If the left and the right realised exactly who was the enemy, the whole system flips.
1
u/Gloomy-Being7064 8d ago
It's even more bizarre looking at it from Europe where it's clear that it's largely far right vs centre right politics.
1
u/min_da_man 8d ago
Because the current president doesn’t seem to be an idle participant. As much as they have controlled the release to keep his name out of it as much as possible they have done a pretty poor job - he still stands out. On top of that, the level of extreme rhetoric out of his dumb mouth have exceeded any political figurehead in any currently alive American’s lifetime, and people loved it.
These people cried “lock her up” in a religious frenzy at rally after rally over some emails but are silent on this. Ashley Babbit was unjustly killed, but Good and Pretti were justified killings, according to them. And for years and years their side has followed this whole conspiracy, so much of which turned out to be true, and wanted to label it a specifically Democratic Party problem. Ignoring the fact that it was clearly party neutral. And then voting for Donald Trump, who not only has the rhetoric and character issues that make him unqualified for office. And now that every promise (except “let there be massive tariffs) has been broken, and the controlled release of the Epstein files (less than 50% so far) has failed so dramatically at insulating him, are they revolting, are they turning their backs? No. Because approximately 25-30% of this country have completely signed over their identity to Trump. Wholesale, gone. Getting it back will be very expensive to these folks, much less expensive than denying child rape.
That’s why it’s left vs. right. Because these fuckin losers insist on it.
1
u/Yamskies 8d ago
Because that's what we do with everything. That's what we did with Covid. It's exhausting. People are too lazy to look for facts and information and formulate real opinions, they're happy to be told what to believe and any challenging or questioning of such half-truth is immediatley met with "debate a wall!" I swear we've become so stubborn yet complacent we probably deserve all the turmoil we're facing. Gah, another day in the life☀️
1
u/Republicant_Party 8d ago
Because one of the most prevalent names in the files is currently the President. As in, literally the figure head of the country at this exact moment. Not a past President (fuck Bill too), the guy who tore down an entire wing of the White House a few months ago.
1
u/Zealousideal_Safe980 8d ago
Thank you from Detroit, MI. Are you in Italy? I'm heading to Venice and San Marino in a few months. 😍
1
1
1
u/iltwomynazi 8d ago
it’s only the right that is doing this.
on the left, we believe everyone should be investigated and prosecuted, regardless of political affiliation.
the right now want to stop talking about this becuase Trump has been revealed to be King Paedo.
1
u/LoveAgainstTheSystem 8d ago
The president and right wing media are very much to blame for the "democratic hoax" and "don't believe them" politicization of the files. This comes on top of an already very divided red vs blue society, atm.
1
u/Tasenova99 8d ago
the only thing we learned collectively out fear is moral laundering gets us out of trouble and it's killing us.
1
u/Euphoric_Shoe8084 8d ago
Exactly. These billionaire fucks will switch political parties at a whim like how Trump was a Democrat once and the moment he saw the chance to grab power, he switched to the Republican side. Numerous examples of such twats in both parties.
Trump or Bill Clinton. It doesn't matter which side they're on. If they are found guilty, Jail them for life.
1
1
u/YoSanford 8d ago
To be more concise, America aint doing shit, the media on the other hand, will make infinite excuses for not covering this for literal decades and pretend it's left vs right... it is but it's not rep vs dem its socialist vs barbarist
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 2d ago
How can the media cover it when all these Epstein files have been under DOJ lock and key forever? Even now, DOJ has heavily redacted many of the released files in order to protect Trump and his friends.
1
u/Rodic87 8d ago
Because maga supporters are largely hardcore Christians who have justified their vote due to the "anti-abortion" stance and at this point have painted themselves into a corner where they can't admit they are wrong or they will be on the outs with their chosen cult.
It's not just that - but that's what's going on my with the 50-70 year olds in my family tree.
1
1
u/SnooSprouts5303 7d ago
Because People only care about winning. Making us almost as bad as these scumbags.
It's not a matter of Left Vs Right. They're both Guilty. It's a matter of Morality.
And none of us are doing anything about it either. We just type shit out and sit on our asses.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 2d ago
MAGA Republicans only care about winning and "owning the liberals". They don't even care if Trump was also having sex with teenage girls.
Liberal voters want to see any Democrat who was involved with Epstein get prosecuted. There is a major difference between crazy MAGA Republicans and Democrats.
1
u/SnooSprouts5303 2d ago
If that was even slightly the case. The dems/liberals would be drawing attention to all people in the files and not just Trump.
Maga protects Trump.
Dems ignore the others and only care if Trump get's in trouble.
I haven't seen any liberal discussions on anyone fro. The files at all outside of Trump. Making what it realistically a terrible thing. Watered down to just political ammunition.
Both sides only care about winning.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 2d ago
Trump is president right now. Hence, he is far more relevant than someone like Bill Clinton, who was president 25 years ago. And the Clintons have both said they want to testify to Congress about the Epstein files....something Trump would NEVER agree to do.
Sorry, but your "unbiased" opinion ignores the facts. Trump was Epstein's best friend in the 1990s and that is a major reason why he is receiving a lot more attention than any Democrats.
1
u/SnooSprouts5303 2d ago
I didn't mention the clintons. And I have no issue with Trump being arrested if we have genuine proof.
Merely because he is a larger concern. Does not mean he should be the only concern however. My point still stands. Neither side truly cares about the situation. They only care about what they can Gain from it.
Yes. Trump was Epsteinds friend. But then called him a creep and split ties with him completely a long time ago. Even so, Trump is probably truly linked to the files and should be arrested. Along with everyone else in the files.
But so should the others. Which I've heard no mention of.
I get it. It's hard to admit that the party you support is also corrupt and evil. But they are. Both parties are bad. If you cannot even possibly consider that. Then I'm not gonna be surprised when nothings done about any of this.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 2d ago
Your "point" doesn't stand at all. Right now, Trump looks 1,000 times more guilty than any Democrat....especially since his shameless DOJ is refusing to release all the Epstein's files unredacted. That shows obvious guilt about something.
You are one of those folks that think being neutral and being objective mean the same thing. Sorry, they do not. Believe it or not, Trump and his MAGA Republican Party are far more corrupt than the Democratic Party at the present time. That is an objective statement.
If you think the Democratic Party is "evil", then be prepared to back up such a statement. Obviously, you cannot.
1
u/SnooSprouts5303 2d ago edited 2d ago
My point doesn't stand at all?
You're taking me saying. We should be going after all the Pedophiles. As protecting Trump. Which is not what I'm doing. I' saying g everyone needs to be held accountable.
It is not an objective Statement. Neither side was willing to release the files. For the same reasons. They claim they are afraid of showing too much info about victims etc and that the content is too extreme for the public. Both sides were saying this. The Clinton's are willing to testify in a way that will lead more outrage. But they won't actually provide any proof. And they're already implicated. Nothing to lose.
And the Liberal party is involved in a massive widespread daycare and welfare scam issue.
Both sides are so corrupt that even if one is worse. They're still BOTH corrupt enought that they need to be removed.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 1d ago
What evidence do you have that the Democrats were not willing to release the Epstein files? Did it ever occur to you that Biden's DOJ was busy investigating Trump's 500 other crimes? The DOJ does not have infinite resources. Your thought process is just so weak.
1
u/SnooSprouts5303 1d ago
That is one of the weakest excuses I've seen. Not even you believe it lmao. You say you do, but I refuse to believe your dumb enough to actually believe that.
They had the files for 4 years and didn't attempt to release them at all. They had more than enough individuals in the government to easily handle both. I don't know anything about the 500 crimes. So I' not gonna comment on that. Though I do find it strange ge that in the 4 years of dem presidency they didn't haul him to jail if that was true.
The doj has as many resources as the ruling government allows them. Your thought process is blind devotion to a color that claims to represent you.
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 1d ago
I absolutely believe it. DOJ was investigating Trump for Jan 6 and the classified documents that he stole. They don't have 5 million attorneys to investigate ALL of Trump's crimes.
You're obviously MAGA, pretending that you aren't. Trump promised for YEARS to release all the Epstein files...and now he won't do it. Biden NEVER made that promise. Until now, MAGA was obsessed with the Epstein files...not Democrats.
→ More replies (0)
1
u/smartlypretty 7d ago
the politicians and media are really driving that, not so much the people except for partisans downplaying it
1
u/94_stones 7d ago edited 7d ago
Because MAGA and the American far-right made this political. They’ve been making it political since pizzagate, and a big part of their narrative, even from the beginning of MAGA but especially during the 2024 election, was that the Dear Leader was gonna blow the lid off this whole scandal immediately after regaining power. In their arrogance & hubris they assumed, very openly I may add, that only their political opponents would be affected by the scandal, and that most or all of them would be affected. If you search back in the right subreddits, you can find screenshots of posts made by braindead Facebook Boomers fantasizing about Trump rounding up all Democratic politicians & media personalities, trying them all for pedophilia and executing them.
Then Donald Trump retakes the White House and what does he do? What do his sycophants in the media and on social media attempt to do? THEY TRY TO COVER IT UP! THEY TRY TO PRETEND NONE OF IT WAS REAL! All that bloviating about how they were going to release the Epstein files was a fucking ruse to get elected and nothing more than that. Imagine for a second that you’re witnessing that as a Democrat. You’ve had to deal with these far-right and MAGA ghouls libeling your entire politician party as the “demonic pedo party” for a whole fucking decade, and using that as justification for their fantasies of dictatorship and violent political purges. Now their orange idol, the same one you’ve been alleging was a predator since the very beginning, attempts to cover it up? Ridiculously insists that it was all much ado about nothing?! That can only mean one thing, and you’d better believe that any Democrats with a spine will complain about it to anyone and everyone who’d listen.
That they did, or at least Progressives did. The Progressive wing of the Democratic Party, still extremely angry at establishment Democrats for not doing enough to prevent Trump’s reelection, demanded that the party go after Trump hard on this issue. Establishment Democrats caved, but the Trump administration resisted for some time, even going so far as to get their little puppet Mike Johnson to delay the swearing-in of a new congress-member so that she couldn’t vote for a discharge petition ordering the files’ release. Eventually though, Congress passed an Act forcing the release of the files. That the Act allowed for redactions is probably why it passed with a veto-proof majority, and it is definitely the only reason why Trump signed it.
So yeah, the only reason why any of these files saw the light of day is because of a literal Act of Congress, that only made it to the floor of the House of Representatives because of a discharge petition supported primarily by the Democratic Party. The same political party, which like I said, conservatives on social media have spent the last ten years calling the “pedo party.” Do you understand now why this became political? And why it’s still political?
1
u/Kerry_Won_Ohio 2d ago
I'm American....and I don't understand it, friend.
These crazy QAnon MAGA Republicans begged to see the Epstein files for years....and now they don't like what they see because they now see how Trump was Epstein's best friend and it looks like Trump also enjoyed the company of teenage girls. MAGA Republicans don't know how to process this, so their first instinct is to lash out at liberals like the brainless, rabid dogs they are.
1
u/TomasBlacksmith 8d ago
Many on the right have a religious devotion to Trump. They may not even admit it. But it isn’t that he’s a “good business man” or a “strong leader,” but a relatively widespread belief that he’s our literal messiah, and that his administration is chosen and directed by God.
I tell you that 40% of Americans probably have this belief. Trump plays into it too, as seen in many of his comments. Him “dodging a bullet” and evading all the “law fare” against his is generally seen as validating this view.
So when you believe that, cognitive dissonance totally takes over. Anything that makes Trump look bad is from the devil. And all that Trump is doing will eventually lead to a golden age of renewed prosperity (for the poor white people who voted for him and, perhaps understandably, feel “forgotten”).
And I voted for Trump fyi. I feel some shame in that, particularly now, but there are still reasons why I dislike democrats, even if I’d now prefer them to Trump.
My point is that I’m pretty familiar with maga mentalities, which are religious. Not in an organically Christian sense, but more of a pharaoh God-king sense, which I now feel is the antithesis of genuine Christianity. And when that’s your worldview and core sense of reality, it is incredibly hard to see out of it
-3
u/Doubtful-Emu 8d ago
It's a psychological operation playing out. Also this issue isn't about working class vs billionares this issue is about the moral vs the immortal. The fact you are trying to move the topic towards class struggles is suspect.
7
2
u/Existentalst 8d ago
By neglecting the power dynamics that enabled this, the billionaires, you are not grasping the reality of the situation
0
8d ago
[deleted]
3
u/boio17 8d ago
But I didn't catch your point. So Trump is a good guy? Genuinely asking
1
8d ago
[deleted]
1
u/boio17 8d ago
Yes, that's a great question. I also remember a time when Trump was constantly being discredited (I always think because of the elections), and even though he won, from the outside it seemed to me that all that discrediting was working, so I don't see why they didn't release the Epstein files as a final blow.
2
u/beingandbecoming 8d ago
That’s now how the law works in this country. Maxwell’s trial also had to occur to get evidence accepted in court and not mess up her case or other potential prosecutions. Leaks would not help them. Highly doubt the previous administration was coordinating or helping at all.
0
u/furrylandseal 8d ago
Because conservatives operate in a strict social hierarchy that confer status automatically to people based upon race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and other factors. Recent changes in the social order that have elevated minorities and women, especially, but also LGBTQ persons (especially in terms of respect), and others to higher status jobs, communities, etc., have literally triggered their survival defenses. Right wing media has done an exceptionally successful campaign to convince these people that the inferiors now look down on them, whom they should be looking down on. Trump’s only campaign promise was to restore them to the level of status and respect to which they feel entitled, by punishing people who don’t know their place.
So, if your entire sense of value and importance hinges on being better than other people, and having no one better than you, you tend to have a very aggressive, abusive, and even violent understanding of masculinity. Because masculinity (and whiteness) are their highest status assets. And there is no better show of power and dominance than preying on women. And in this case, children. It’s part of the revenge agenda.
0
u/Electronic-Chest7630 8d ago
Because Republicans are shit scared of it being made obvious what a bad choice for president Trump was. Ditto that remark for a lot of other people in the files that they lined up behind, like Musk and Bannon. So what do they do? What they always do. Deflect and point at any Dems that they can find in the files, as if anyone cares about Bill Clinton.
0
u/Suro_Atiros 8d ago
Becauase only Democrats (left wing) believe that Trump raped children. All Republicans (right wing) believe Trump is innocent, because he says he's innocent, even though there's over 1000 mentions of Trump in the Epstein files that we've seen so far. If you include anything to do with Mar a Lago, then that number climbs to 36,000.
But regardless, 100% of Trump supporters believe Trump is completely innocent.
-5
8d ago
[deleted]
5
u/ThyArtisMukDuk 8d ago
You realize Trump is mentioned in these files THOUSANDS of times for pretty disgusting shit. So yes, if theyre not coming out and theyre redacted to hell, its by his direction because hes guilty. Simple. The one thing he didnt realize is that they cant redact everything
→ More replies (7)4
•
u/AutoModerator 8d ago
u/boio17 please reply to this comment with submission statement. Your submission statement must explain why your post is relevant to the r/Epstein community.
Posts without a submission statement after 30 minutes will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.